Thinking of Rehoming...

I have always been an advocate to the saying that 'Pets are for life' In all my short life I have never rehomed an animal. I have fostered and rescued countless times though.

Now I feel like I may have to go against my own beliefs. Here is the story. I have a 9 month old Collie girl. I stupidly purchased her from a pet shop. Pet shop puppies here do not come from mills, but simply from BYB which want to make a quick buck.

She was a good girl at first. Very willing to please, but a big time barker when she was outside. She would bark for hours on end.

Now after she has done so good, she has made a complete turnaround. She barks all day, at EVERYTHING. She has started fence guarding, she barks viciously at all pedestrians, other dogs and motorcycles. A few nights ago we were backing into the driveway and she started biting and barking at the car. I know this is herding behavior and I have tried numerous techniques to control the behavior. My mom is not going to let this dog ruin her car.

Also, I heard our next door neighbors say a few days ago "Shut up already!" I know she is starting to become a nuisance. I dont want someone to poison her, or steal her and dump her somewhere.

I am seriously thinking of rehoming her. I want to ask an adoption fee (of about 100 dollars) so that I can get her spayed before she goes to her new home, so she wont be pumping out puppies wherever she goes.

Does anyone have any advice?

Its hard to even think about I know. Have you tried to find a Colli board like this one? They may have some help for you and advice on how to keep her from barking so much and to keep the hearding behavior from becoming a major problem. Other than that I have no advice. You will make the best decision for your pup. Good luck.

If you decide to re home her. Shes going to have to be rehomed with a family that completely understand her behavior issues and are willing to work with her.Its going to take a special home to adopt her.
Have you considered taking her to a dog obedience /training class?

Originally Posted by gardenandcats

If you decide to re home her. Shes going to have to be rehomed with a family that completely understand her behavior issues and are willing to work with her.Its going to take a special home to adopt her.
Have you considered taking her to a dog obedience /training class?

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Thats the problem, there are no trainers near by, only on the other side of the island.

I have tried everything with her. I know if I do decide to rehome her she will have to go to a very special family. Im not going to give her to someone who will just tie her up all day. I really dont know what to do, my main concern is that she isnt a nuisance to our neighbors. I dont want to come home to a dead dog.

If there are no obedience classes nearby, I would suggest getting a few good books (Brian Kilcommons is my favourite to read for problem behaviours...) and entering into a training regimen yourself. You don't necessarily need a class, just some good books on training and the dedication to doing it daily....

Also, keep her inside when you aren't out to supervise her...A dog is more likely to engage in (and be rewarded by) barking when outside unsupervised and/or tied...Dogs are more prone to neurosis and problematic behaviour when left to their own devices outside. Can I ask why she isn't inside with you?

Also, this is a problem behaviour that won't go away..Rehoming her is simply offering someone else the problem to fix. And its my opinion that you have an obligation to do your best to work with her and attempt several solutions before you give her to someone else to solve the issue..

I don't mean to be harsh but it doesn't sound like you have exhausted your options yet...

Good luck

Is your collie outside by herself for several hours a day? If so that is the problem. All herding dogs need some kind of assignment, otherwise they create one for themselves. Since she does not have a flock of sheep to keep in line she may be desperately trying to apply her skills to passing cars, pedestrians, etc.

Normally I would say to take her for a 2-3 mile jog each day but that may not be enough. And I don't suppose you could get a a couple of sheep or goats to look after, since that would be ideal for her.

It sounds to me like she does not have any "behavioral issues", she is simply bored out of her mind. I don't think you will get any different answers from a dog board-I spend more time on dog boards than anywhere else.

Since they often are the ones left to deal with a breeds quirks, I would contact Collie Rescues for advice on how to work with her on the problem or put you in touch with someone who can. Most groups post their email addresses on their sites, so it pretty much opens you up to contacting a collie or herding breed rescue from anywhere for knowledgeable help. In the meantime try increasing her exercise to what is normal for a puppy of her breed, as that and a lack of mental stimulation might be the root of the problem if she spends a lot of time outside by herself.

The problem with giving her away now is that it not only just passes off her problems to someone else, but unless you know how to correct the problem yourself you would have no clue what that “special home†that could work with her is. It sets both dog and new owner up for failure, and failure can mean being dumped off on someone else or winding up in a shelter. I am not trying to make you upset saying that, but we got so many puppies in that age range in the shelter and a lot of people donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t want “someone elseâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s problem†at that point.

Here's my
Jake came from the SPCA and was VERY abuse. He had a broken leg. He is also a "fence guarder" which we don't mind. He will bark at anyone and anything that goes by but settles as they/it leaves.
What we did with Jake is when he would bark, I call his name, pin him, and calm him down to let him know everything is ok. He stops. I think it has more to do with being terratorial then anything. He knows my mom, and friends who frequently come over.
How long is she left outside? You may want to consider letting her inside more to reassure her that you and HER family is ok. Pinning her will work very well also.
Make her sit, then lay down, then roll onto her back with her belly up. Then put your hand on her chest and tell her "STAY" in a firm voice..move your hand and if she starts to stand up, put your hand back on her chest and say "NO. STAY" repeat this until she stays for as long as you want her to. You really have to let her know who is the dominate breed...

Don't you wish cats listen like this?

Originally Posted by DixieDarlin256

Pinning her will work very well also.
Make her sit, then lay down, then roll onto her back with her belly up. Then put your hand on her chest and tell her "STAY" in a firm voice..move your hand and if she starts to stand up, put your hand back on her chest and say "NO. STAY" repeat this until she stays for as long as you want her to. You really have to let her know who is the dominate breed...
:

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I have to seriously disagree with this method of getting your dog to listen to you...In technical terms, what you sort of describe is called an "alpha roll" and most good trainers won't even do this themselves let alone tell an amateur dog trainer to do it.. It may work with your dog but you are very lucky.

With some breeds, some dogs and very dominant dogs, you are more likely to suffer a serious injury (to you or the dog) than any good that can come out of it..And with dogs with submissive issues, you are risking serious emotional trauma to the dog.

.I just know that in most dog obedience fields this is heavily advised against (it used to be popular with archaic dog trainers but no longer)....

I advise the OP to not try this...The problem is that the dog is bored and without a job to do...Being alpha changes nothing for this particular problem anyway....
You would also never call your dog to you to do this and this particular problem with this collie has nothing to do with being alpha or dominant....You would be punishing her for something she is being rewarded for doing and for being bored and underexercised and that isn't fair...There are other more effective ways of dealing with this issue...

Originally Posted by DixieDarlin256

Make her sit, then lay down, then roll onto her back with her belly up. Then put your hand on her chest and tell her "STAY" in a firm voice..move your hand and if she starts to stand up, put your hand back on her chest and say "NO. STAY" repeat this until she stays for as long as you want her to. You really have to let her know who is the dominate breed...

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Sorry but I think this is very VERY bad advice. There may still be some people out there who advise using the so-called "alpha roll" to "show a dog who is boss" but there is nothing to indicate that this dog has dominance issues. Besides, no reputable trainer uses this method anymore. You are more likely to cause problems with it than solve any.

you took her in for life, though. please try taking her to obdience classes. it's worth a shot. good luck! and you can also try NILIF with her
http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

While I can certainly understand your frustration with the barking behavior, I agree with everyone that you need to get to the bottom of WHY she's doing it...and at 9 mos. of age, she is certainly capable of being trained to not bark excessively. You can't honestly tell me that that at her young age, that you've exhausted all of your options as far as training her...I'm not saying that as a criticism, because I know what it's like to be completely out of ideas and frustrated by an animal's behavior. Have you tried a barking collar? You may want to look into that. I also think she needs more time inside with you, if you are leaving her outside for long periods of time. You need to be firm, and consist in your training regime with her...since an obediance class isn't an option in your area, I would heed the advice to buy some training books and literature.

You may find that through consistent training and positive interaction, that your collie can get through this rough spot...and you'll have happier neighbors. Perhaps leaving her outside without you being there isn't an option right now...when she begins "patrolling" and attempting to herd strangers, don't be afraid to firmly (but not painfully) hold her muzzle, and use the command, "No barking!" Use the same phrase each time. You can then immediately redirect her behavior, and say "Sit." Cuddle her, pet her, and if she can sit quietly for 10 seconds, give her a treat, and lots of lovin'. You can try this for a few days, and then gradually increase the time to 30 seconds, 1 minute, etc. Also, keeping her busy during her outside time may help keep her distracted enough (and reduce boredom) that she may not feel the need to bark and be disruptive...buy a set of tennis or hard rubber balls so that you both can engage in "catch", play frisbee, give her a Kong toy with some peanut butter inside, squeaky toys, a rope bone to fetch, etc. Only allow her outside for periods of 15-20 minutes or so...long enough to go potty, and to have a short play session, after she's shown you that she can play without barking at everyone. Do this several times a day, and be sure to walk her. If she's barking excessively on walks, hold her muzzle, tell her, "No barking," and redirect her to sit for 10 seconds. Reward her for sitting, and then continue on your walk.

Please give her a chance to prove to you that she's worthy...chances are, she is a wonderful dog that needs a lot of interaction, consistency, and most of all, a permanent home!

Originally Posted by Loveysmummy

I have to seriously disagree with this method of getting your dog to listen to you...In technical terms, what you sort of describe is called an "alpha roll" and most good trainers won't even do this themselves let alone tell an amateur dog trainer to do it.. It may work with your dog but you are very lucky.

With some breeds, some dogs and very dominant dogs, you are more likely to suffer a serious injury (to you or the dog) than any good that can come out of it..And with dogs with submissive issues, you are risking serious emotional trauma to the dog.

.I just know that in most dog obedience fields this is heavily advised against (it used to be popular with archaic dog trainers but no longer)....

I advise the OP to not try this...The problem is that the dog is bored and without a job to do...Being alpha changes nothing for this particular problem anyway....
You would also never call your dog to you to do this and this particular problem with this collie has nothing to do with being alpha or dominant....You would be punishing her for something she is being rewarded for doing and for being bored and underexercised and that isn't fair...There are other more effective ways of dealing with this issue...

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Originally Posted by 2dogmom

Sorry but I think this is very VERY bad advice. There may still be some people out there who advise using the so-called "alpha roll" to "show a dog who is boss" but there is nothing to indicate that this dog has dominance issues. Besides, no reputable trainer uses this method anymore. You are more likely to cause problems with it than solve any.

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Well I have used this with every dog I have ever had. My father and I were registered AKC Breeders and trainers of Black Labs in Kentucky for 13 years. Also, this is how the SPCA recommends training them.

I own two boarder collies and a sheltie myself. They are very vocal dogs. If they are hungry they tell you. If they are happy they tell you. If they're bored they tell you. Routine is wonderful with them. Crate training works well too. Keep those minds entertained! They're genius. They need a lot of mental stimulation. It's one thing to exhaust them phyiscally (and boy is that ever a task!) but to actually get their minds tired is extremely hard work. They want to always be on the move. If you can't provide her with all the attention she needs try getting her to stop those habbits and then rehoming her.

Also, yelling at them does not work. They are fragile dogs. Their feelings do get hurt. Be firm, but not fierce. A lot of people are silly and dont understand the difference.

Good luck. She sounds like a cutie.

Originally Posted by 2dogmom

Sorry but I think this is very VERY bad advice. There may still be some people out there who advise using the so-called "alpha roll" to "show a dog who is boss" but there is nothing to indicate that this dog has dominance issues. Besides, no reputable trainer uses this method anymore. You are more likely to cause problems with it than solve any.

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Actually, a lot of her behavior is all about dominance issues, but there are more gentle ways to gain "alpha" status with the dog. There are reputable trainers that use techniques to dominate, but not in cruel ways. You can cause problems if you are cruel about it.

I highly recommend Jan Fennell's Dog Listener book and/or DVD. Here is her website: http://www.janfennellthedoglistener.com/ I met Jan, used some of her techniques on my dogs and the results were amazing.

To call barking a dominance issue is rubbish. Dogs bark - for a variety of reasons. It's how they communicate. Do NOT alpha roll your dog - outdated, complete waste of time and sowing the seeds for bad things later in life.

Have you tried training your dog? Have you tried working out why it's barking? How much exercise does it get? Does it have any toys, anything to do? How much time does it spend inside with you? Collies will bark - you need to understand the nature of the dog you have, before you decide to throw it away because it bothers you. You'll rehome this dog to someone else and it will keep barking - now also out of confusion and abandonment - they in turn will rehome the dog, and the cycle will start for this poor guy until it's been in five homes in two years, or pts.

Your dog is a puppy - puppies are HARD WORK and require a lot of patience, and firm consistent training. Buy some books, do some reading, TRAIN your dog - don't just give up on it when it needs you. Also, 9 months is adolescence, when everything you've ever taught them goes out the window and they do whatever they want. If you can spend time with your dog and make sure he is properly trained, this phase, too will pass.

I'm sorry if I sound angry but I am angry. I fully understand how difficult it is to raise dogs, but you get a dog and you get it for life. Rehoming must happen in certain situations (Lord, it happened to me - I'm not judging) - but not over something like barking.

Go to this site www.chazhound.com/forums - I am Rubylove there and it has many excellent professional trainers who will give you lots of advice and some great books to read. The frustrations of dogs are many - they are hard, hard work and there are many conflicting schools of thought, as you've seen from this thread alone. That site is a wealth of information and a brilliant source of advice for problems just such as this one.

I think you have received some excellent advice, e.g. NILF is a wonderful training method and The Dog Listener is a wonderful book as well. Some people like Caesar Milan's training method, I'm not one of them though. I have a herding dog also and perhaps you could brush up on the traits/personality of the herding breeds. For one, they love exercise and need it mentally as well as physically. They are very smart and need to be stimulated. Collies are loyal and loving by nature. I'm sure you will try some of the suggestions that board members have offered you and hopefully things will improve. Best of luck.

I agree with those that advocate POSITIVE, sensitive training. I hear all the time how the herding breeds are more sensitive than other dogs (maybe it has to do with how in tune they have to be to their handler when they're doing their herding jobs). With my own dog, an Australian Shepherd-Border Collie mix, he's uber sensitive. All I need to do is say (maybe growl in the worst case scenario) "NO." and stare him in the eyes until he looks away (I never drop my gaze first). If I start yelling and making a big deal of what he does, everything falls to pieces. I can't quite say HOW he feels when I start yelling, but he'd be a bit of everything: scared, uneasy, upset, confused, frustrated, etc. And all those emotions swimming around in a sensitive mind can cause problems in the future. Jake spent about a year or so with negative training: that is, yelling and slapping on the rump. At the end of the year, he was seriously bad, he even bit my mom in the face when she tried to pick him up once (not entirely either of their faults: Jake had been let outside after someone was having a temper tantrum in the house, so he was afraid to come back in, and mom forcing him by picking him up caused him to panic). At that very moment, I decided to start giving him ONLY positive training and you know what? His behaviour improved dramatically. It was a couple of months before he stopped getting nippy with everyone but now he's doing really well. If he quivers his lips in warning at someone, it's because that someone is treading the line like a stupid fool, teasing Jake or something. But he hasn't bit in ages, without good reason anyway (once he bit me in the arm, but that was because he was aiming for the nail clippers right when I was moving my arm). It's been over a year (maybe 2 years? I can't quite remember if this happened in late 2004 or 2005) and Jake is doing great. He doesn't act quite so nervous anymore.

I don't advocate negative training for any dog, though. Dogs aren't people, they're willing to please, they don't do anything bad to spite you. When you use negative training, they don't know what you want (ex. dog goes pee in the corner, you slap dog on the rump. Dog doesn't have a clue what to do; he knows the slap is associated with the peeing, but what's he supposed to do instead?). If you catch the dog peeing in the corner, you say (or bark out), "No!" and then simply lead the dog outside to the proper peeing place.

Not that this really has anything to do with the topic at hand. I just felt like chiming in on what kind of mental state the Collie has. Collies, like most (if not all) herding dogs, are intellegent and they don't need to be berated and yelled at. They can figure out easily enough what "No" means, and they can tell a lot what your tone of voice means.

But otherwise, I think the big problem is simply the lack of stimulation. This dog is being left outside too long by herself and she's probably going through that awkward growth spurt stage. It's been years since Jake went through that, but I remember him being a total demon then, and I hear many stories about how dogs (even the intellegent herding dogs) suddenly forget all their training at the 9-12 month mark. Simply bring the dog in and brush up on the basic training, and add in some new tricks. I guarantee the barking will stop.

First I would get her spayed (that will help some) and you won't have to worry about any puppies. She's 9 months old and probably ready to come into heat soon and you'll have every male dog in the neighborhood after her!

Second, don't let her stay outside by herself a long time. Either go out and play with her, take her for long walks or even think about some agility training. If you don't have any agility trainers in your area, you can make homemade jumps and tunnels that will keep her occupied.

Sounds like she's bored and since she's a herding dog, she needs something to keep busy. If she hasn't been to obedience classes, she needs them now.

Also, like others have said, try to find some collie message boards or rescue groups and ask for their advice. We have a lab, and we certainly would not want to be next to dog that constantly was barking all the time when outside.

We had a boarder collie for a while. She was the best dog but as she got older the herding desire got stronger. Where we lived at the time gave her lots of room to run and things to do to keep busy. Boarder collies really need a job to do.
Well anyway we moved into town and the house we have dont have much of a yard. She started herding children that came over not our own but friends. We would redirect her but after a short time was able to tell she wasnt happy. And she grew bored. We knew a couple that lived on a farm and after a while of consulting we let them take her since they were totally in love and had the room to let her run during the day and was able to come inside when ever she wanted.
They trained her to be of some help with there chickens and cows. I think in her situation and ours it was the best thing for her.