Declawing... - Page 3

I'd much rather see declaws banned, rather than cropping. Declawing IS a cosmetic surgery, and much more cosmetic than a crop. Cropping actually had a purpose when the breeds were working, but declawing? Is it not cosmetic to chop off their claws because you dont want your nice new rug to get messed up. I have a nice looking rug in my living room and I could care less if Ceci puts her claws into it every once in a while. I am not going to mutilate my cat just because I dont want my furniture to get messed up!

We've had 3 cats; all were adopted as declawed adults. I'm not sure when they were declawed. One (our first, Sassy) had been declawed on all 4 paws.

Our current cats, Teddy and PJ, are absolutely wonderful, sweet, amazing cats. We feel very lucky - they haven't had litterbox issues, or other personality issues related to their declaws (we think maybe they were declawed young, though we'll never know - the people who surrendered them left little information).

We have decided that if there is a choice, we will probably try to adopt declawed cats. We've found so many in local shelters and rescue groups that were just dumped there (of course, along with intact cats), but so many people don't adopt the declaws because they hear about potential problems.

I would never declaw a cat unless it was for a medical reason - but that being said, I will probably keep giving declawed cats a home for as long as I can.

When I was little, I had a cat that my parents insisted on declawing. I didn't know much about declawing until I adopted Marcie a few months ago. There was this HUGE info packet that came with her and there was a ton of info about declawing and what exactly is involved. Marcie gets her little claws clipped when I feel that they are getting too sharp, but I will never get her declawed.

As for tail docking in cats, I have seen it done when medically necessary on a tail that was beyond repair, but I think that to cosmetically dock a tail on a cat would negatively interfere with balance.

I have been a proud Aussie mommy and I know that they get their tails docked because they are ranch dogs and since they work with livestock they are likely to get their tail stepped on by cows, sheep, horses and such. Also since their tails are so long and hairy, they end up dragging through mud and poop and all sorts of other unpleasant stuff which leads to matting and skin infections.

I find more often then not, that as a young child, you usually loose an arguement like that. Back years ago, people didn't understand the procedure, and it was as common as spaying, so we can't feel bad about that, all we can do now as adults is try and educate people, so they know what it is exactly that is done to them and inform them on clipping nails or products like soft paws. (My mother never declawed, but that's because we had cats that went out, so even though it's better to keep them in, they at least could defend themselves, I think she was just too cheap to declaw them LOL, but atleast we had them fixed so they weren't out populating the neighborhood!)


I have never heard of a cat needing it done medically, and until I saw that cat, never seen one be docked! I have since asked her about it, I was curious, she didn't do it because it "looked better" but because she had one that was sickly as a kitten and got runny poops all over it from the litter box. so she docked all her kittens (or the ones she kept, mabey, I don't know if she did them all that way and sold them docked?)I think it just as lousey of an excuse myself, but I do like a dog with a docked tail, and since it is done so young, who am I to say any thing. Cat/dog, I guess it doesn't matter, It's just not common with cats so I thought it was strange, but I guess it is no different then doing a dog, when it is done right. I guess?

My Duke is not, nor will he be declawed. Same for Ares, the kitten we'll be getting in December. Duke is an absolute NIGHTMARE when my husband and I try to trim his nails. You would think we were KILLING him! He hisses, spits, growls, SCREAMS! He is such a BRAT!!! *sigh* Now we just let the vet do it.

Duke is only six months old, and he uses the scratch post and carpeted house that my husband and I built for him. He actually goes straight to it, no matter where he is in the house. Sometimes, though, he scratches the side of the bed if I don't get up right away to feed him at 5am every morning

Anyway, I read up on it, and I feel its cruel and unecessary. And I think anyone who insists on declawing to protect their furniture should rethink getting a cat. BUT, I don't think anyone should compare it to humans by saying "try getting your fingertips cut off first" or anything like that. They could just as easily say you should try spaying/neutering yourself first, and then think about doing it to your cat! I think those procedures are cruel too, but unfortunately we HUMANS have made that a necessary evil. We have been terribly irresponsible in our relationship with domestic cats and the overpopulation problem is entirely our fault.

My husband and I took on the responsibility of having a male cat (soon to be two). Many neuter because they don't want them spraying. Well, if thats your only reason then you're no better than the person who declaws to protect their furniture. (this is the main reason most vets give for neutering, btw) So whats the solution? Let them outside and they're less likely to spray AND scratch your furniture. Unfortunately, I live in an area where there are cars, dogs, possibly diseased ferals and a multitude of other things that make allowing my babies outside a big No-No. When I took Duke in, I also took on the responsibility to look after his welfare. I couldn't do that if I had not neutered him. My husband and I talked long and hard about it and we reluctantly decided that it was for the best.

Anyway, that was OT a bit... Sorry

Tiffany

Nope... Not declawed,, and never will be..

All 3 girls are soft paws fans... And thye love their pretty nails...

IMO, neutering is different because it benefits the cat. If he is not neutered, then he will be left with a lot of urges, as a result of his hormones, that cannot be fulfilled. I don't think spaying and neutering is at all cruel.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that it has benefits. Namely, keeping them out of trouble. But that trouble that we're keeping them out of is mostly of our own creation. I'm not trying to get flamed here, and I would encourage anyone who is considering owning a cat to get them neutered/spayed and to NOT declaw them. But I think altering cats IS cruel because if it weren't for our mistakes this wouldn't be necessary. I was worried sick when I got Duke neutered. I called the vet every hour and he ended up having to stay overnight. I feel bad about it still. I wish there was a way that I didn't have to do it. But there isn't. So while I've done it, will do it again, and will encourage everyone else to do it as well, I don't have to like it... Kinda like taxes

No declawing here....I too had originally planned on getting Leo declawed until I was educated...I guess I just didn't know how severe and painful the procedure was. In fact, all my sister told me was that it would make him depressed, and that was enough for me! But then I found out everything.

Therefore, my cats are not and never will be declawed. If there's ever a problem with their claws or if I have kids down the line, I have no issues using SoftPaws, although at this point, those are totally unecessary as well.

If you must have a cat with no claws, definitely do adopt a cat who has already undergone the surgery. Or buy a Garfield doll.

I have to admit I'm a bit confused. What trouble is our own creation? And what mistakes are we making that caused it to be necessary to neuter? Just curious.

Well, of course this is all just my opinion... But... The overpopulation problem is caused by us. By people who want a kitten but don't want a cat. By people who wan't to make a buck off breeding their 'moggies' (BYBs). By people who think its cool to let their cats breed but don't consider the responsibility attached to birthing kittens and finding responsible owners for them. By people who throw cats away when they don't conform to their preconceived notions of cat behaivor. Etc... Other dangers include reckless driving, using poisonous chemicals and leaving them accessible, allowing pet dogs and cats to roam freely and pose a physical threat and introduce the threat of disease, not to mention the afore mentioned 'throw aways' that become diseased ferals. From my understanding, domestic cats didn't even exist in the United States until WE brought them here.

I'm guilty of a few of these things. I'll admit that. But I try to be cognizant of it and minimize the problem as much as possible. I got my Duke from a BYB. But rather than supporting her and encouraging her to do it again, I reported her to animal control. My baby was in bad shape when I first got him and I had to educate myself FAST about this kind of thing. I have quite a few neighbors who allow their cats to roam the neigborhood and they have not been altered. Two of these neighbors I've convinced to get the procedure done on their pets. I saw a cat outside the other night. I live in the midwest and it was about 30 degrees outside. I stayed out in the cold for 45 minutes trying to coax the cat into my garage. Once there, she curled up right away and went to sleep. The next morning I found her owner. They said it scratched their funiture so they didn't want it anymore. It p*sses me off that people are so careless and irresponsible ! I don't belong to any rescue group, and yet I've "fostered" two cats since this summer. One was even pregnant, but we had it terminated. I was devastated, but she was throw away herself. Who would take her AND her babies? The vet had a waiting list for accepting new litters!!!

OK, I'm sorry about that. I love animals, and I get a little heated thinking about this stuff. Sorry again...

Tiffany

My cats all have thier claws. I would never declaw. If you start from a young age you can teach them not to scratch your furniture. I have nice furniture and don't have problems with my cats scratching it. I worry about declawed cats escaping from the house. What are they to do if a dog or other animal chases them? They can no longer climb and they have no claws for defense or catching prey. Thier screwed.

Does anyone have a link to information about how the procedure is actually done? I've heard things about it, but would like more information.

When I had my web site up, I had this link on it, I make all new kitten owners sign a "no declaw" contract, so I give them some info as to why. There may be better ones as far as the proceedure, and some one will post one if they have it, but this will help. It also has "horror stories" too, just to get an idea of what some people (and cats) have gone through with it.


http://community-2.webtv.net/zuzu22/STOPDECLAWCOM/

This poll isn't really representative. It would be interesting to me to have a poll that asked, "Would you declaw a cat." I have three cats. Peaches was front declawed by her previous owners. The deed was already done when I adopted her from the Humane Society. Jazzy had all 4's declawed by his previous owner. I also got him at the humane society. Jake has all his claws in tact and he came from a cattery/breeder. I would never declaw a cat myself. Although I have had it done to a cat more then 20 years ago when I didn't know what it was all about. And it was a normal and accepted thing back then.

There is alot of people who think its cruel but i have had declawed cats and they are no different,other than they dont ruin your property. All have been just as happy as the ones with claws. My opinion is its not cruel but what is cruel is people that have cats that dont protect them from the outdoors and let them roasm free only to become hit by cars. That is cruel. Besides this is the USA and its legal here so what is not leagal doesnt really matter.

http://community-2.webtv.net/zuzu22/STOPDECLAWCOM/
Please look at the pictures, read the desciption, and read just a couple of the stories in there. Then if you can honestly say after that it isn't cruel, then o.k.

what about the fact that it greatly reduces their risk of getting cancer when they are older? And females from getting cancer and Pyometra? Also what about the fact that intact cats spread FeLV and FIV. There are a LOT of health benefits to spaying and neutering too, where there are very very rarely health reasons for declawing.

That is a real odd way of looking at it. What about the horrible pain and agony they go through during the procedure? They scream out in pain even though though they are put out for the surgery. Just because anything is legal doesn't make it ok...Just do it because it is legal who cares about the effect it has on the cat...that doesn't really make sense.

First, i dont agree with having a cat declawed,

I had one cat that had been front declaw done, i never saw any of the issue that some people talk about here.

next there is no way a vet should ever agree to doing all 4 paws.

I saw something in the paper, and on this site about how there was some talk of banning declawing here in the US. How i would sooner people take the time and effort to teach the cat wear it is ok to claw. I would also like to see a pet have a home. I would think the number of cats that get a home will go down if they pass it.

however i do understand that declawing a kitty does not promise it good home for life.

anyway, that is just what i think when this subject comes up.

It's not just a matter of whether they behave normally or are happy afterwards. To me it's just morally wrong to amputate part of a cat purely for one's own convenience.

Letting a cat go outside is a totally different situation because, unlike declawing, going outside does offer some benefits for a cat. It also has risks but most people who allow their cat outdoors don't do it for their own benefit, they do it because they have weighed up the risks and benefits and decided that going outside is in the cat's best interests.

Hi Jen,

I'm not comparing declawing to altering. I just said I think they are BOTH cruel. I do believe that declawing is MUCH worse then altering though. And again, I encourage people to alter their cats (and to NOT declaw them). Most of us really can't handle the responsibility of keeping an altered cat and I hate seeing cats being thrown out because they spray or howl or something worse happening because they roam.

I'm also aware of the health benefits of altering cats. I never denied that there were benefits. But the fact that there are so many diseased cats out there is at least partly our fault. Saying that intact cats spread disease is a little misleading, I think. I might use the word feral instead, as those that are caught and altered and then released will often still roam and fight and spread disease. I know this was not your intent, but it almost sounds like you are demonizing unaltered cats. This is what I disagree with and why I say most of the problems are our fault. Its not the cats fault.

As for the health benefits, I don't think there are a lot, as you put it. More benefits in female cats, yes, but for male cats its almost negligible. The risk of testicular ailments in male cats doesn't decrease by that much when comparing neutered males to intact males. In fact, in the several sites that I've searched on the pro's and con's of neutering, not one said anything about a reduced risk of cancer in male cats.

While they do mention it in females, I'd like to see a legitimate study (unbiased) that shows the actual percentage of altered vs. whole cats that go on to have cancer. That kind of information is hard to come by. I think this is because people who don't alter their cats are maybe not as likely to take them to the vet as often either and no one wants to give a person any more reason to hesitate on having this procedure done on their cats. I don't totally blame them, because the second someone knowledgeable and who has done the necessary research (i.e. not me ) says the health benefits are negligible then some people will start to think its OK not to alter their cats. If anyone has any information on this, I would very much like to know about it.

K, thats my take. Thanks for allowing me to express my opinions and I hope no one is offended by what I have said. (I tried very hard to not be unintentionally offensive )

Tiffany

Thank you for posting this. I forced myself to look at the pictures. It made me cry, but its something I think anyone who is considering declawing or has friends/family that are considering it should see. This breaks my heart...

I understand the above, but I still don't see the answer to why you think altering an animal is cruel. I must be having a senior's day.

Sorry, all that talk and no substance! The short answer? I think its cruel because its unnatural...

Tiffany (my middle name should be 'Loquacious')

I totally understand most of what you are saying. I agree, and I am glad we can have nice conversations about this But I guess I don't see how spaying and neutering can possibly be considered cruel at all? I am just not seeing it that way. Which is fine, I am happy you are still doing it and getting others to. But I am just not understanding that I accept the fact that is what you think and it's fine, i don't think either one of us is going to convince otherwise hehe and we don't have to either

I respectfully differ. I have adopted cats that had previously been declawed and they ARE different then other cats. And I've heard these stories from many people who have had the same experiences. I've got one cat that was going to be put down because she was a biter. This is their new way of defense. And even indoor kitties still need a means of defense. Think of the child that gets too rough with a cat or who is yanking the cats tail. Of course you don't want the child to get scratched either. But it is much worse for the child to be bitten. Cats who have been declawed are more likely (not always but more likely) to be biters. They are more likely to have litter box issues. Again... not always but much more likely. More likely to be less affectionate and more likely to have balance problems. These are well known problems of declawed cats. My cat, Peaches, who was front paw declawed before I adopted her, has trouble jumping up on the cat tree or jumping up on anything. Sometimes she loses her balance and falls down to the floor. One of my other cats is a male who had all 4 paws declawed by his previous owner. He never even attempted to jump on the cat tree or window perch. He just doesn't have the balance at all. My thrid cat is not declawed at all and has none of these problems. And he doesn't scratch at furniture either. He has the cat tree and another scratching post and he leaves the furniture alone.

Declawing is nothing less then mutilation. If we did this to humans, there would be a huge deal made of it. In my opinion and especially after seeing these pictures, declawing is just as much mutilation as female circumcision is in some Asian or MIddle Eastern countries. I'm sure people could justify that as well by saying it decreases the female desire for sex so there will be less sexually transmitted disease, less out of wedlock and teen pregnancy etc. Just because declawing isn't illegal in the USA doesn't mean it is right. We are definately not the moral authority in the world. Take a look at these pictures taken at different stages of declawing surgery. http://community-2.webtv.net/stopdeclaw/declawpics/

Thank you for saying this. I started to type something along the same line as this, but I felt I had already said too much in this particular thread. I agree with you 100%!

Tiffany

I'm sorry to hear about the troubles your kitties are having. Give them extra scritches behind the ears for me! :^)

Thank you for understanding, and I too understand that I have a minority opinion on this. I'm not trying to convince anyone to think like I do (how boring!) just wanted to share my point of view and I'm grateful that I can do that here.

Basically, like I responded to Yosemite, I feel its cruel because its unnatural. But I don't believe that cruelty is black and white. Some things are more cruel than others. For example, I feel it is more cruel to leave Duke intact and allow him to roam (with all the dangers that entails) than to just neuter him and eliminate that natural urge. To me, neutering was the lesser of two evils (not that its evil, just a figure of speech)

Thanks for listening/reading!

Tiffany

Thank-you for looking at it, I still cry every time I go to the site, and re-read the stories of people who "if they would have known then what they know now" I am not into making ANYONE feel bad for some thing they have already done, it can't be changed and they probley feel bad enough they unknowingly hurt their cat, but, I want people to see what it did do so they will never do it AGAIN. You can't take it back, so what's done is done. I wish I could Make every one (especially those who don't think declaws are cruel) look at it. I hope that the poster, pinkpanther66 will look at it too, I know that most people only see what they want and will look the other way, so they don't see the truth. But, fact of the matter is declaws are cruel, even if a cat is lucky enough not to have the problems many cats do have ei, litter issues, bitting, issues, balance issues, ect. It is still a very painful surgury and doesn't belong in the vet practise, there is NO need of it, or for it. I am going to be a little unoriginal here and say, if you are worried about your "property" being ruined, then you have NO bussiness having a cat.
I will say though, I don't see that altering is cruel, but, we don't always have to agree. I don't think it is cruel, at all, I think they are happier, and healthier, but, that's my oppinion, and it's not like I am argueing declaws, I will try to make the point VERY clear when it comes to that, LOL!
Did you read any of the stories? They have a vet tech discription, from when she /he gets to work, until you pick your cat up, I cry every time I read it. The vet tech talks about how the cat will cry out in pain while under, it must be so painful, I can't imagine doing it to my babies

pinkpanther66 PLEASE read the stories from the link I posted, if you don't feel declaws are cruel, then what will it hurt to check it out? Here is the link again, just incase you didn't see my last post.
http://community-2.webtv.net/zuzu22/STOPDECLAWCOM/

Kirra is not declawed, she is pretty in green and red nail covers. My last two cats were NOT declawed. My cat back 6 years ago sadly was. I didnt know about nail covers than and didnt realise how bad declawing was, she tore my skin so bad i had (what i thought) was no choice. I regretted it after it was done. My baby was in pain for days and than she went from being a lovey dovey who wanted to be petted all the time to a cat that , while she loved me and followed me, would snap at me occasionally (after all i was the one who did that to her). I swore i would never declaw again, it was hard with the next to but i managed, with Kirra i am greatful for nail covers and promote them. My husband's aunt just got two kittens and a brand new leather couch, she was talking about declawing them and my mother in law told her about the covers i use on Kirra and had me email her info.