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need advice from chemistry minds.

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
I am trying to find (in USA) something similar to the cystease from the UK. I found a product, but it has the following additional ingredients, and I am not sure if they would be harmful for fangs condition of cystitis. His problem is now being addresed with a urine acidifier (carpon) which is working, but I understand that the gloucosamine will strengtnen and heal the bladder walls, so I want to do that as well. Do you think any fo the following ingredients would aggravate his cystitis? Worried about the calcium.

N-ACETYL Gloucosamine. It's property's are calcium, 47mg, and NAG, 250 mg. Other ingredients are dibasic calcium phosphate, stearic acid, microcrystalline cellulose, modified cellulose gum, colloidalsilcon dioxide and magnesium stearate.

I don't know what any of this means or if it could be harmful

tyour thoughts?thanks
post #2 of 12
Other ingredients are dibasic calcium phosphate this is a binding agent .. it also provides a common calcium , stearic acid preserving agent , microcrystalline cellulose binding agent , modified cellulose gum binding agent , colloidalsilcon dioxide and magnesium stearate these are binders that provide some minerals .


I dont see anything harmful , I try not to buy things with that many binders ...
post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
Thank you Sharky,

I forgot to add it has a statement on it that says "contains shellfish (shrimp and crab)". I assume that is in the calcium. It probably doesn't have much, the turkey canned food I feed has some fish in it, but fish is not good, right?
post #4 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by gailuvscats View Post
Thank you Sharky,

I forgot to add it has a statement on it that says "contains shellfish (shrimp and crab)". I assume that is in the calcium. It probably doesn't have much, the turkey canned food I feed has some fish in it, but fish is not good, right?
I am fine with FISH generally as unless UTI issues are the trouble ( which I beleive yours is a bladder so yeah no fish) ....

Shellfish is a crusteacean and is not "fish" persay since the chemical make up is far different than say a tuna or salmon..... The shellfish is the glucosime in the most common OTC form
post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 
ok then, I am assuming the UK gloucosamine is derived form the shellfish as well, and it is not harmful. I am going to start my guy on this and observe. Won't know if it is helping his bladder wall because his cystitis is under control now with carpon (acidifier) but if I miss one dose, his urine habits change immediately, as in more frequent, less output, so I know it is helping him. My hope is the gloucosamine will strengthen/heal his bladder wall to the
point where he won't need the acidifier. At least that is how I understand what I am reading about cystease. AS follows;
GAG Supplements for Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease

Introduction
It is claimed that glycosaminoglycans (GAG) supplements re-establish and maintain the integrity of the bladder wall lining damaged in feline lower urinary tract disease (FLUTD) cases.

What's it Supposed to Do?
A thin layer of material composed of GAG covers the inner wall of the normal cat bladder, its function is to:

Prevent adherence of microbes and crystals to the bladder lining
Reduce bladder wall permeability to noxious substances within the urine.
It is now believed that changes or damage to this GAG layer may contribute to the signs of FLUTD developing.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that supplementation with GAGs is beneficial because it helps the damaged areas of bladder wall to heal. It also, supposedly, has painkilling and anti-inflammatory effects on the bladder wall.

I would love to get my guy to the point where I don't have to shove pills down his throat everyday. thanks
post #6 of 12
I don't know what is in Cystease, but for glucosamine, Polly takes a product called Cosaquen for Cats. Although she's on the cosaquen, she's still on a urine-acidying diet (Hill's c/d). It's important to keep the pH down so crystals don't form. Before going on rx food, Polly's urine pH was 10.

However, Polly has a particularly severe form of cystitis, so hopefully you'll be lucky enough to be able to get away with just the glucosamine.

I also hate making Polly take a pill every day (amitriptylene) but I give her a treat as soon as she swallows her pill, and she's a pretty good sport about taking it.

I hope this helps! I'm interested to hear updates about your kitty since I'm dealing with similar issues here.
post #7 of 12
Im dealing with the same problem over here and it's driving me crazy. I have been feeding Sunny Prescription S/D for the last month and a half. I was gonna just try using the natural acidifiers but the vet scared me into the Prescription crap telling me that crystals can become life threatening if not treated promptly. Which I know if they get really bad but Sunny wasn't even blocked all the way he just happened to go outside the litter box I think because I had just changed him over to a new litter and he didn't like it, but the vet said to get a urine sample to be safe anyway. When his results came back they said that he didn't have an infection but he had a PH of 8.5 and many crystals. After a month of being on the S/D his PH went down to 7.5 and he had few crystals but the vet said to keep him on for one more month and then retest. If everything comes back all good then he wants to switch him over to some C/D. I am gonna try some of my own natural remedies at this point and see if they work to control everything once it is down. I figured I might as well use the Prescription Diet to get it down real fast and then see if I can maintain with the other stuff. I really don't want to keep him on the Prescription Diet forever the stuff is made from the crapiest ingredients and it is know to cause other problmes down the line like Calcium Oxalate crystals which are not dissolvible, they have to be surgically removed.
post #8 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny's Daddy View Post
Im dealing with the same problem over here and it's driving me crazy. I have been feeding Sunny Prescription S/D for the last month and a half. I was gonna just try using the natural acidifiers but the vet scared me into the Prescription crap telling me that crystals can become life threatening if not treated promptly. Which I know if they get really bad but Sunny wasn't even blocked all the way he just happened to go outside the litter box I think because I had just changed him over to a new litter and he didn't like it, but the vet said to get a urine sample to be safe anyway. When his results came back they said that he didn't have an infection but he had a PH of 8.5 and many crystals. After a month of being on the S/D his PH went down to 7.5 and he had few crystals but the vet said to keep him on for one more month and then retest. If everything comes back all good then he wants to switch him over to some C/D. I am gonna try some of my own natural remedies at this point and see if they work to control everything once it is down. I figured I might as well use the Prescription Diet to get it down real fast and then see if I can maintain with the other stuff. I really don't want to keep him on the Prescription Diet forever the stuff is made from the crapiest ingredients and it is know to cause other problmes down the line like Calcium Oxalate crystals which are not dissolvible, they have to be surgically removed.

Before going out on your own I suggest a check up with another vet
post #9 of 12
Check up as far as what? I am still gonna go to my vet to get him tested once a month to see how his urine levels are doing. I tried going to another vet already and they told me the pretty much the same procedure as my vet, S/D for a month or two and then C/D forever. They don't wanna hear about anything else. They said nothing else works.
post #10 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny's Daddy View Post
Check up as far as what? I am still gonna go to my vet to get him tested once a month to see how his urine levels are doing. I tried going to another vet already and they told me the pretty much the same procedure as my vet, S/D for a month or two and then C/D forever. They don't wanna hear about anything else. They said nothing else works.
I am not a vet ... but I would suggest you research on your own ... and then take your finding to a vet ...
post #11 of 12
Thread Starter 
To Sunny's daddy,

Do a search on carpon by Dr. Belfield. It has really helped Fang, and he eats half wet (best quality I can afford) and half dry. The Carpon is derived from cranberry, and according to Dr. Belfield is much safer than other acidifies. I give Fang 2 a day and his urine is crystal free and ample and usually in the right place. If his box is dirty or there is something uncovered in the other boxes he will pee elsewhere. He is really keeping me on my toes. Fortunately the last time he did this, it was on the bathroom floor, and I could see it was clear and free of crystals. The last time I had the pleasure of inspecting his urine it was thick and full of sandy material (crystals). that is another indication that things are going well now, and as long as I can get to the boxes before he has to go again, we are good to go. I would separate the boxes more but I don't have the room, and I do not want them in the basement.
post #12 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny's Daddy View Post
Im dealing with the same problem over here and it's driving me crazy. I have been feeding Sunny Prescription S/D for the last month and a half. I was gonna just try using the natural acidifiers but the vet scared me into the Prescription crap telling me that crystals can become life threatening if not treated promptly. Which I know if they get really bad but Sunny wasn't even blocked all the way he just happened to go outside the litter box I think because I had just changed him over to a new litter and he didn't like it, but the vet said to get a urine sample to be safe anyway. When his results came back they said that he didn't have an infection but he had a PH of 8.5 and many crystals. After a month of being on the S/D his PH went down to 7.5 and he had few crystals but the vet said to keep him on for one more month and then retest. If everything comes back all good then he wants to switch him over to some C/D. I am gonna try some of my own natural remedies at this point and see if they work to control everything once it is down. I figured I might as well use the Prescription Diet to get it down real fast and then see if I can maintain with the other stuff. I really don't want to keep him on the Prescription Diet forever the stuff is made from the crapiest ingredients and it is know to cause other problmes down the line like Calcium Oxalate crystals which are not dissolvible, they have to be surgically removed.
c/d and s/d have helped enormously with Polly.

If the pH of your cat's urine goes up again, the crystals will come back. They could block him completely, and this can be life-threatening. I'm sure there are members on this board that have lost or nearly lost cats this way. You really need to guidance of a vet when messing around with urine pH.

It's not the c/d and s/d that gives you calcium oxalate crytals, it is a result of acidifying the urine too much. It's a very delicate balance that requires professional oversight. If you just start mucking around with acidifiers you could over-acidy the urine or not acidify it enough.
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