Debarking a dog

sarahp

TCS Member
Thread starter
Veteran
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
15,841
Purraise
28
Location
Australia
I don't know if this is an IMO thing, or if it's ok here...

A girl here at work brought her dog in today, who's a real sweetheart. We were talking about barking, and she said his bark is almost non-existent, it's a weird raspy sound because he was debarked - they snipped his vocal cords so he couldn't bark.

This sounds horrible to me, and similar to declawing - taking a vital part of the animal's dignity away from them. Can anyone else give me more info on debarking a dog?
 

goldenkitty45

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Aug 29, 2005
Messages
19,900
Purraise
44
Location
SW Minnesota
I know a lot of byb who have a lot of dogs or puppy mills do a ton of debarking to the animals just to shut them up and no complaints.

IMO its animal cruelty and in the catagory of declawing. Dogs have vocal cords to bark for heaven's sake. That's a part of the dog. And if you can't stand the barking then you shouldn't have the dog.

Its sad and sick. We got our lab from rescue (indirectly) and we thought her previous owner might have debarked her when we first had her. She didn't bark for 6-7 months (was abused by the owner to stop barking).
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3

sarahp

TCS Member
Thread starter
Veteran
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
15,841
Purraise
28
Location
Australia
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

I know a lot of byb who have a lot of dogs or puppy mills do a ton of debarking to the animals just to shut them up and no complaints.

IMO its animal cruelty and in the catagory of declawing. Dogs have vocal cords to bark for heaven's sake. That's a part of the dog. And if you can't stand the barking then you shouldn't have the dog.

Its sad and sick. We got our lab from rescue (indirectly) and we thought her previous owner might have debarked her when we first had her. She didn't bark for 6-7 months (was abused by the owner to stop barking).
That's kinda what I thought... This girl is really nice, and wouldn't do anything to "knowingly" harm her dog, and she dotes on him, but he's a really scared boy, and deathly afraid of men. She's had him since he was 6 weeks old, and she said from a breeder, so I wonder if it was a BYB.
 

epona

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
4,663
Purraise
949
Location
London, England
I think it's disgusting that anyone would do that. I'm not a dog person, but I know that dogs bark - and that with proper attention and obedience training, barking is not normally an annoyance - devoicing is a shortcut used instead of proper training as I understand it.

Another thing that upsets me is that some people do this to parrots also - parrots, who communicate mostly by sound, express their joy and their displeasure vocally, and yet some people want a colourful ornament and have their vocal cords cut so that they don't make parrot noises, robbing the bird of its main form of expression.

I think I'm going to go and have a cry now, just thinking about this sort of thing upsets me
 

goldenkitty45

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Aug 29, 2005
Messages
19,900
Purraise
44
Location
SW Minnesota
More likely the pup came from a mill rather then the byb. Very sad. Byb's usually don't have that many dogs but if in a neighborhood and they are breeding a lot, they may debark so the neighbors don't complain.
 

dixie_darlin

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
8,031
Purraise
4
Location
Pinellas Park, Florida
That's disgusting.
I'm sure she didn't know but what vet would do that?!
Jake barks at EVERYTHING. It doesn't bother me a bit. He is just doing his job
 

jen

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
8,501
Purraise
3,009
Location
Hudson, OH
She could have gotten a breed that doesn t bark, like a basenji, but they aren't all that common.
 

pami

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
17,482
Purraise
17
Location
Birmingham
Originally Posted by Epona

I think I'm going to go and have a cry now, just thinking about this sort of thing upsets me
Me, too.
 

miagi's_mommy

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 19, 2004
Messages
8,151
Purraise
1,146
De-barking is just as bad as de-clawing IMO. how would someone like their voice box taken out?
It just makes me sick. Dogs bark to express themselves and defend themselves
(some people feel intimidated by barking such as burgulars and what not) and cats need their claws to defend themselves. what the heck is wrong with people today?
 

persi & alley

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
6,313
Purraise
15
Location
Farmers Branch, Texas
Originally Posted by sarahp

I don't know if this is an IMO thing, or if it's ok here...

A girl here at work brought her dog in today, who's a real sweetheart. We were talking about barking, and she said his bark is almost non-existent, it's a weird raspy sound because he was debarked - they snipped his vocal cords so he couldn't bark.

This sounds horrible to me, and similar to declawing - taking a vital part of the animal's dignity away from them. Can anyone else give me more info on debarking a dog?
If you want a barkless dog, buy a Basenji. They do not and cannot bark and sit around cleaning theirselves just like a cat. I have had three of them.
 

callista

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
3,152
Purraise
86
I consider it cruel--a dog's bark is a lot like a cat's claws; it's what he uses to warn an opponent not to mess with him. It's likely not painful, as declawing is, but that's about all there is to recommend it.

Dogs can be trained not to bark, or at least not to bark for the sake of barking, which is what neighbors consider a nuisance.

I've checked out no-bark collars; and a lot of them have a "training mode" where the collar beeps whenever the dog barks; so that the dog pays attention to the collar and forgets about barking. There are settings that shock the dog if it barks, but I don't think you should need those settings unless it's a very well established habit...

Dogs tied up bark more than dogs allowed to run free. So not tying up your dog should do a great deal towards teaching him not to bark. Obviously you have to get a fence or a run for that.

We taught our Mercy not to bark just by telling her not to bark whenever we heard her doing it; she's smart enough to realize that barking without a reason doesn't please us, so she doesn't do it. But now that she's being tied up to keep her from escaping, she's started again... I'm trying to find a way to solve that dilemma.
 

loveysmummy

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
2,413
Purraise
3
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Originally Posted by Callista

But now that she's being tied up to keep her from escaping, she's started again... I'm trying to find a way to solve that dilemma.
Just curious as to why she is tied up at all? Yes, dogs become more stressed and less uncertain about their surroundings when tied. They become hyper vigilant about warnings as they are more powerless in their movements... (and many bark out of boredom)
 

callista

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
3,152
Purraise
86
Mercy is tied because she's an escape artist... she wiggles under the fence easily, and if she can't wiggle under, she removes obstacles and digs until she can. A couple of weeks ago, she was hit by a car, and her hip was bruised... Thankfully the driver was nearly stopped when he hit her, so she's fine otherwise. So we would rather tie her than see her escape again.

Being inside would be ideal, but Mercy is imperfectly housetrained and soils the carpet whenever she is left alone in the house. Her owner has been making some progress on crate-training her--an amazing fact, considering that the crate is used as punishment--and that seems to work best. But she is lonely and bored in her crate, and she is put outdoors when it's nice out...

I want a long, sturdy leash instead of the short one she's on now--the old one broke and we're using a walking leash temporarily--which should give her a bigger range and help her not to bark. Would nylon cord discourage our year-old puppies from chewing through, do you think, or would a metal-core rope work better? She's tied from a harness, not a collar, so choking isn't a big risk; but she does tend to wrap herself around things and have to be freed... some sort of running line, maybe.

She'll have to spend a lot of time in her crate (or in the basement; I just dog proofed it a little while ago) as winter sets in, anyhow; she's a short-haired dog, and we can't leave her outside if it's cold--not like we could leave our German shepherd mix or our other shaggy black mutt. Not without a really well-insulated doghouse, anyway; and if she stays in the doghouse for warmth all the time, we might as well just bring her in...
 

juliekit

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
531
Purraise
1
Location
Puerto Rico
At the risk of getting flamed, I dont think debarking is as bad as declawing. In fact dont think its absolutely horrible at all.

I actually thought about it with my girl, but decided not to because I wouldnt be comfortable with a silenced dog.

My Collie pup is from a byb and as neuroti as they come. If shes inside she barks, if shes outside she 'fence guards' and chases the kids and motorcycles from the backyard. If shes tied up she barks, the girl is crazy. But ive basically learned to ignore her and im glad I didnt go through with it.
 

loveysmummy

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
2,413
Purraise
3
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Has/Is she going through a training regime?

I am glad you didn't debark!


I do think that people who don't want a dog that barks, shouldn't get a dog at all!
 

juliekit

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
531
Purraise
1
Location
Puerto Rico
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy

Has/Is she going through a training regime?

I am glad you didn't debark!
I have been working with her, and she is a bit better. I think the biggie with her is that she doesnt like other children, and she isnt familiar with bikes, motorcycles etc.

Ive been taking her out to the park, and out on regular walks where she can meet different people, and I think its made a big difference. She lost out on some crucil socialization when she was a baby because I lived in a small apartment on a busy road and wasnt able to walk her or correctly desensitize (sorr sp?) her to normal things.

I do think that people who don't want a dog that barks, shouldn't get a dog at all!
I think you are 100% right. But there is a difference between not wanting a dog to bark and not wanting a dog to be a neurotic barker. I love the way my Collie barks. She looks like a picture of perfection, with her 'mane' raised and her tail up, she looks quite gorgeous. Now if only she wouldnt do it as much!
 

snosrap5

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
6,802
Purraise
14
Location
Emerald Coast of Florida
I can honestly say I have NEVER heard of this! I had to read every post to understand exactly what you meant! How horrible! I have three dogs and they are not big barkers but they will let me know if someone is near. Scoobie our Basset loves to bark at the squirrels and I couldn't imagine having her debarked. She does drive me crazy.
 

catsallover

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
2,194
Purraise
5
Location
Alabama
I hadn't heard of it until I joined a dog forum (which, BTW, is very similar to here in how they feel about their pets) and one girl did finally have to get her dog debarked, after she tried EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING, and all the while working with her vet to get it under control, and finally her vet recommended getting her debarked, as there was nothing left to try (trainers, behavorists, no-bark collars, the vet, etc.) - there was some medical reason too- maybe something to do with barking so much it was causing throat inflamation and other problems, I don't remember exactly). So for some people it is an easy way out (and yes, they should be ashamed), but for some other loving, responsible and desperate dog owners, it is a last resort.

Not to mention, how do you rehome a dog who is a manic barker, and you have done everything you can? Oh yes, he barks his head off every waking minute, until he causes himself injury, and yes, I've spent $100's (at least) trying to fix it, but it hasn't worked, and been fined numerous times for having a nuisance dog- don't you want to take him home?
I really can't blame her in her case for having it done- her dog does have a loving owner and a good home, otherwise she wouldn't have tried so long,and so many things to avoid having to go to that extreme.
 

miagi's_mommy

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 19, 2004
Messages
8,151
Purraise
1,146
I have a hound and he barks 24/7 and I would never dream of having him
de-barked.
imagine having your voice box taken away. I'm sorry, but I so do not agree with it. It's like de-clawing a cat.
 

loveysmummy

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
2,413
Purraise
3
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
I think someone may have fed you a "big fish" story. Not only have I been on dog forums, but have dealt extensively with dog rescue, excessive barkers (for every reason imaginable), and super neurotic and sensitive dogs...

There is no reason to get your dog debarked anymore than there is in getting your cat declawed. The reasons people offer may seem to need sympathy due to any guilt they may have but sorry..there are thousands of dogs that are abused, neurotic, bored, anxious, and yes, excessively bark...

But come on, this isn't life threatening....There is no dire consequence from excessive barking...No matter what she may have told you.

Like some cats meow and exasperate their owner's last nerve, dogs do as well..

This is no excuse to have a dog debarked.

I don't mean to come across as offensive but this is so similiar to many of the excuses I have heard day in and day out for the people who use mutilation procedures on their animals for their own convenience..
Yeah, it's not convenient...yeah, it grates on you...yeah, it's annoying...
But if you can't handle the responsibility, don't own the animal..
You don't have to "spend the $100's of dollars"....just don't own the animal if you can't take the entire responsibility on.
 
Top