Siamese/Oriental Genetic Connections

I am not a breeder and don't plan on becoming one, but I love everything about cats and I'm trying to understand the genetic connections between Oriental Shorthair (OSH) and Siamese cats.

I have a neutered, male OSH and the same breeder from whom I adopted him has a chocolate-point Siamese girl that I'm thinking of adopting. This girl apparently has one Siamese sibling and numerous OSH siblings. My question is can a single litter include both Siamese and OSH kittens? Is the only difference between these two breeds the coloring/patterns?

Thank you for your help,

Carlie

I think it's down to the fact that the gene which causes points in the siamese cat is recessive - so 2 pointed cats will produce only pointed offspring. In which case it would be possible for non pointed cats (orientals) to carry the pointed gene but have no points. Breed 2 of those carriers together and you will presumably get some pointed cats and some solid colours. Is that right? Someone correct me if I'm wrong!

Yes, OSH were originally from siamese and solid colored cats to get the non-pointed orientals. So you can have both in the pedigree and a litter of OSH's can have some "pointed" as its recessive.

Thanks for your quick answers. I was a little confused about it but it's amazing how similar Siamese and Orientals can be in personality, and they obviously look similar in physical appearance. I absolutely adore both breeds!

Carlie

In most associations the "pointed" orientals cannot be registered as siamese - they are classified as AOV (any other variety) orientals.

Interesting...I don't plan on showing my kittens and the breed itself is not important to me, but I feel a bit misled when the breeder told me that the kitten was Siamese. Technically, shouldn't she have mentioned that they were pointed Orientals, rather than a Siamese? I was assuming that this particular "Siamese" was a different breed, and not a pointed Oriental. It was only when I saw the kitten with a litter of solid Orientals that I began to wonder about the differences between the 2 breeds. Either way, I love my Oriental, Brady, and this little girl is so sweet that it doesn't really matter. I just wish that the breeder had explained it to me. Thanks!

Carlie

It's the same situation as Exotics, Exotic Longhairs and Persians. Some registries will not allow Exotic Longhairs in the Persian category although they look just the same.

IMO Orientals carry the same genes as Siamese except the pointed gene. So, a Siamese is pointed and Orientals are not! (So shoot me now! )

I was looking around the Internet a bit. I was afraid that the breeder was not being totally honest, but I think people's opinions differ and often vary based on the cat organization they're registered with. For example, this particular breeder's cats are mostly registered with TICA, which apparently considers pointed Orientals to be Siamese. However, the CFA considers them "Any Other Variety" Orientals. The differences seem insignificant unless one is a breeder or shows cats. I have had experience with "true" Siamese and tons of experience with Orientals, and they often have the same great personalities...so I won't let the politics bother me too much!

Maybe the breeder felt like it would be more confusing to say the cat was AOV Oriental because it looked like a pointed siamese. Since points are recessive, if bred to a pointed, you'd only get pointed. However, if a AOV oriental was bred to another oriental you could get both solid and pointed.

And CFA likes to keep them "separated" - the 4 colors of siamese are siamese in their book - any other point color is in a separate "breed" - Colorpoint SH for the red, cream, tortie points.

In ACFA the 4 colors and the red/cream, etc are all siamese; but they also do not allow the pointed orientals to be in either class (orientals/siamese).

TICA bases it more or what color they look like as to what breed they are.

Yes its confusing


And as long as you are not breeding your kitty and most people would assume its a siamese, I'd not explain the difference. IMO they are siamese not AOV's