Why are Show Siamese' so..different?

ericanicole

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Imsadi is great looking! I wouldnt mind having a cat like that. They look as if they have SO MUCH personality.

here is my stewie


he is a mutt of a cat.
he's not that handsome..and is a total monster but I like that he looks different than mike, since mike can be the only handsome stunning man in the house (he made me right that you guys lol J/K)
 

siameseohio

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Although I've preferred the more traditional Siamese, I think SunLee and Imsadi are absolutely beautiful.

I don't frequent shows, but from what I've seen in magazines and on the net, the show Siamese are more extreme then SunLee. There ears do appear larger and their heads are more of an extreme wedge. I'm obviously not the authority on show Siamese, but that is what I've observed.

SunLee looks quit regal and it looks as though she knows it.
 

snosrap5

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Originally Posted by EricaNicole

Imsadi is great looking! I wouldnt mind having a cat like that. They look as if they have SO MUCH personality.

here is my stewie


he is a mutt of a cat.
he's not that handsome..and is a total monster but I like that he looks different than mike, since mike can be the only handsome stunning man in the house (he made me right that you guys lol J/K)
I think Stewie is very handsome!!
 

celestialrags

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Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Stewie sorta looks like a shorthair ragdoll
He's handsome.
I guess your right, he sorta does look like a SH ragdoll. He would look like a bi-color almost, if he didn't have the seal markings on the nose. I thought he looked like a snowshoe sorta, mabey till you said that.
 

celestialrags

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Originally Posted by EricaNicole

he is a mutt of a cat.
he's not that handsome..and is a total monster but I like that he looks different than mike, since mike can be the only handsome stunning man in the house (he made me right that you guys lol J/K)
He is very handsome! I like the markings on his nose. If it was an exceptable pattern for ragdolls I would love to have one like that, I think he is a doll!
 

siameseohio

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Originally Posted by EricaNicole

Imsadi is great looking! I wouldnt mind having a cat like that. They look as if they have SO MUCH personality.

here is my stewie


he is a mutt of a cat.
he's not that handsome..and is a total monster but I like that he looks different than mike, since mike can be the only handsome stunning man in the house (he made me right that you guys lol J/K)
EricaNicole, I beg to differ with you. I think stewie is very handsome. And his markings are interesting. I've never seen a cat with those type markings. We won't tell him what you said.
 

celestialrags

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Who knows what makes a snowshoe? I can't remember now, It is siamese and what? Does any one here have a snowshoe? and could they post a picture. What colors/patterns can they be?
 

ericanicole

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Aww thanks guys! You're the Best
I guess its hard for me to find him handsome when the only time I see him is when he is hanging onto my leg with his nails or smacking me in the face with his paws when i pick him up.

heres a little baby stewie for ya.
I find him to be quite plesant when he's in this state
 

celestialrags

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Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Snowshoes were originally crosses of siamese and bicolors.
Here's a link on the brief history

http://www.breedlist.com/snowshoe-breeders.html
That's the same thing I checked out when I googled it. But, I think you mean siamese and american short hairs. The two patterns are bi-color and mitted. (also they have high whites and high mitted. Thanks though.

From what I have seen they are different, their patterns are just as uneven as they are even. (One cattery I looked at said they are one of a kind, and come in many markings.( I saw one that looked like Stewie, and saw some with little mustaches of white. But I did see a few really nice even marked mitteds. So I guess they vary as well (as does most with the white spotting gene)
 

hopehacker

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Originally Posted by Kattengek

Thank you Eva


Hope, SunLee is BEAUTIFUL

Imsadi is in love with her too
Oh.. there's no doubt about it, the moment Ms SunLee saw Ismadi, she was IN LOVE. So was I for that matter Ismadi is a very handsome young man.
 

hopehacker

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Originally Posted by siameseohio

Although I've preferred the more traditional Siamese, I think SunLee and Imsadi are absolutely beautiful.

I don't frequent shows, but from what I've seen in magazines and on the net, the show Siamese are more extreme then SunLee. There ears do appear larger and their heads are more of an extreme wedge. I'm obviously not the authority on show Siamese, but that is what I've observed.

SunLee looks quit regal and it looks as though she knows it.
SunLee isn't show quality. She's pet quality. She's not as extreme as the show quality cats, and her ears are set wrong for show. She's still a modern Wedge faced Siamese, but not for show, just for being a loving pet. She is a very graceful little lady, and she "THINKS" she's show quality, so I let her have her little delusions.
 

goldenkitty45

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Yes, sorry when I only mentioned bicolor - I was "thinking" ASH bicolor at the time. Anyway the white spotting gene is very hard to control, that is why you rarely get a show quality snowshoe. The breed council should revised their standards a little for allowances instead of perfection - because even 2 "perfect" marked snowshoes will not give you perfect marked kits!

Even the birmans have a problem with the white gloves/hind feet in getting the exact white standard.
 

sandtigress

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Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Even the birmans have a problem with the white gloves/hind feet in getting the exact white standard.
Ain't that the truth!! My Chay is a beautiful boy, but because his feet aren't evenly white, he's not show quality. His half-brother on the other hand, has perfect gloves and laces.
 

celestialrags

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I have ragdolls, and find they can be aweful to work with (especially the bi-colors (high mitted, high whites, ect.) I have a color point girl, and she has had three litters (2 with a mitted sire and 1 with a bi-color sire) and out of those, I have had only one mitted kitten with show quality mitts and boots. (Yuki, in my signature, she has gone to one show, but didn't do as well as we would have liked, but the judges did like her, and said when she matures more, she very well could be unbeatable, due to having some of the cleanest markings.) So any breed with the WSG will have their mismarked "pet" kittens.
 

mimosa

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Originally Posted by celestialrags

So any breed with the WSG will have there mismarked "pet" kittens.
I don't know if they would. Fife breed standards of breeds like the Siberian, Norwegian Forest cat, Maine coon and Turkish Angora say any amount of white is allowed, I don't think they have exact criteria how the white should be distributed on a show or pet kitten. Some breeders might not even know what a Harlequin or a mitted is/"should be" exactly.

One of the reasons why breeding Siberians or Somalis seems more appealing to me than breeding Birmans, all the fussing about square millimetres of white would probably get to me
 

celestialrags

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Originally Posted by Mimosa

I don't know if they would. Fife breed standards of breeds like the Siberian, Norwegian Forest cat, Maine coon and Turkish Angora say any amount of white is allowed, I don't think they have exact criteria how the white should be distributed on a show or pet kitten. Some breeders might not even know what a Harlequin or a mitted is/"should be" exactly.

One of the reasons why breeding Siberians or Somalis seems more appealing to me than breeding Birmans, all the fussing about square millimetres of white would probably get to me
But, I am not talking about these breeds, I am talking about pointed cats where the white spotted gene is associated. If a cat doesnt have a certain set amount of white then that is fine, but, talking about cats thats do have these standards (which all breeds have specific set standards) They have to be that, or they are considered pet quality.
I not exacly sure what you are trying to say, but, pointed cats that carry the white spotted gene will have mismarked kittens that are pet quality. You can have two grand champions with perfect markings, that doesn't mean the kittens will. The white spotting gene causes the cat to have white mitts, and such, and the standards clearly states they have to have even mitts and boots, without spots on them, so if you have a mitted with too low of mitts, or boots, or color spots in the boots, or white on the ears of the bi-color. These are missmarked patterns and considered pet quality, and any of these breeds that carry WSG can have mismarked kittens "pet quality"

If a breeder is breeding and have a breed with these patterns and doesn't know what they are (harlequin or mitted) I don't think they have any business breeding and obviously aren't ready to breed. I knew what patterns and colors (both traditional, and non-traditional) before I bred my cats, and if you don't even know what kind of patterns your breed has, or even what they are then best leave breeding to some one who does.
 

goldenkitty45

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That was my point - the white spotting gene is too hard to control and be so "picky". And you can have a cat that is perfect in every way for the standard and one paw is not exactly right with the white markings - which renders the ENTIRE cat a pet. That's sad IMO.

You should have a bit of allowance and not be so precise as to how high/low the white mit shoudl be - give a range. You'd have more cats to work with and not so many pets.
 
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