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Tag banned at Mass. Elementary school - Page 2

post #31 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveSiamese View Post

I am sorry but I believe that there are things broken within our education system. Please explain to me how there isn't something broken within the schools when children feel the need to bring guns to school and shoot their peers and teachers? I'm not saying that tag is the root cause of this action, but please consider the WHOLE picture. It is the ideals behind games like tag and other things that help cause the problems, not help create solutions.

There is much wrong with elimination and competitive games. One of my universities biggest issues with these types of games is that it fosters dissention among the students and trying to up one another. Someone is always the loser. It prevents a community atmosphere were children can learn to work together to accomplish tasks, which to me is a greater achievement than being the best at something. I am a great believe in community because that is a tradition within my ancestors culture. It is only through colonization, assimilation and the forcing of Eurocentric beliefs that our education is the way it is now.
Firstly, if you look at it the other way, you can see that making the world a happy place in kids eyes and not preparing them for the real world is precisly why some kids do come in and shoot their teachers and classmates. the real world is not nice and it is competitive and these children are not well equipped to cope witht hat world.

These children are being brought up playing violent video games where the 'baddy' never gets caught, and this is being reinforced in schools where children can not be punished or left out for fear of their feelings... that is why elimination games are needed. I do agree however that these should be coupled with team building exercises etc to foster team work and inclusiveness at the same time
post #32 of 57
I just think its because of this SUING business in America.


"if you hug me or poke me.. ill sue you."
post #33 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
Firstly, if you look at it the other way, you can see that making the world a happy place in kids eyes and not preparing them for the real world is precisly why some kids do come in and shoot their teachers and classmates. the real world is not nice and it is competitive and these children are not well equipped to cope witht hat world.

These children are being brought up playing violent video games where the 'baddy' never gets caught, and this is being reinforced in schools where children can not be punished or left out for fear of their feelings... that is why elimination games are needed. I do agree however that these should be coupled with team building exercises etc to foster team work and inclusiveness at the same time

Great Post.
post #34 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveSiamese View Post
Actually as a student teacher I am learning at lot about these types of games. There is actually a list of games on the No No list because they don't serve a good purpose when teaching physical education. Physical education isn't just about fun and games, but about learning new skills and abilities.
But this is recess for crying out loud. A time for the kids to relax and have fun. P.E. comes later in the day.

They don't want kids to play Red Rover anymore either.
post #35 of 57
To me, in this society, a teacher is condemded no matter what they do. In a previous post a poster talked about being upset that a teacher wanted her child medicated but when I replied that I would most likely not share that view I got what seemed like and extremely sarcastic reply even when I was trying to be as kind as possible. It's like people are already angry without anything ever happening, just waiting to express that anger on the first available target.

People are going to gripe out the edcation system no matter what, so atleast they are taking proactive steps in changing some of the negativity that is out there.

I don't mean any offense and I'm not talking about anyone in particular, but it just seems like people come off jaded by the whole life experience. Ie. It just seems like everyone wants everyone else to fall or experience failure just because they did...sort of like a right of passage. I just can't agree with that outlook.


AS for the violence....of course I don't think tag is the root cause of all evil. I was suggesting that the violence we are witnessing with children today is a symptom of something wrong with much in our education systems, homes and families and society in general. Changes have to start somewhere (even as small as banning negative games) and I just feel like the criticisms are seemly over harsh.

I find myself questioning why all of the problems in society fall back on the teachers to fix. ie. obesity. For instance, if parents and people in general were soooo worried about obesity amoung children and about their children gaining the value of competition through games such as tag, then after work, maybe they might actually take their children out and play tag with them instead of just complaining about it and it's not like tag was ban from teh country...after all you can still go outside on your own time and play tag.

On the list we are taught that we aren't supposed to or aren't allowed to teach include: Dodge ball, Duck, duck, goose, Kickball, Musical chairs, Relay races,Line soccer, Red rover, Simon says and Tag with elimination.

I have a whole long power point slide presentation that my Kin prof did up for us if you'd like to look at it.
post #36 of 57
How do children learn to maintain their self respect and self confidence in the face of failure if they aren't allowed to fail or lose at anything? I think there's too much navel gazing going on when innocent games like musical chairs are banned because someone is eliminated at each round. Big deal - if a child can't deal with that heaven help them. It would have been called being a good sport in my day.

I don't want people to fail, but everyone will fail at something in their lifetime. The obsession with making winners of everyone all the time is in danger of producing a generation of bad losers. It is possible to lose at something and still keep a smile on your face. Losing isn't some terrible pit of failure that is to be avoided at all costs. It's just a fact of life, and very often a useful learning experience.
post #37 of 57
Are you kidding me? Simon Says is not allowed to be taught? It's a BASIC game to teach instructions and listening skills. I used to use it all the time with my kids with great success.

You are totally looking in the wrong place. What is wrong with kids today is NOT the education system. The problem is the PARENTS who want to interfere with disciplinary measures or not teach their children discipline. It is very difficult to do your job when a child who is spoiled rotten comes into class and thinks they can act the same way in class they do at home, have the parent think you are there to teach their child manners and then have some of them criticise you for disciplining your students because they have failed to grasp the idea of their children being held accountable for their responsible.

I am giving you my point of view from ten years of teaching experience with a broad range of students and environments. I am by no means bragging when I say that I was often called out for being the BEST teacher by parents, students and other teachers.

Being proactive should NOT include elliminating games that other generations have seemed to deal with for generations without a problem. Again, that tells me that teachers want to practice avoidance, not necessarily deal with the issues of socialization.
post #38 of 57
Boy, that is just sad. No musical chairs.
No, I really don't want to see it, it depresses me.
Just because some university prof says it is so, doesn't me much to me.
I am so glad my son is raised but I feel sorry for my grandkids.
post #39 of 57
I totally agree Miyasmom and I don't blame the schools either.
I'm glad not all teachers agree with this banning everything.
post #40 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyas_mom View Post

You are totally looking in the wrong place. What is wrong with kids today is NOT the education system. The problem is the PARENTS who want to interfere with disciplinary measures or not teach their children discipline. It is very difficult to do your job when a child who is spoiled rotten comes into class and thinks they can act the same way in class they do at home, have the parent think you are there to teach their child manners and then have some of them criticise you for disciplining your students because they have failed to grasp the idea of their children being held accountable for their responsible.

Being proactive should NOT include elliminating games that other generations have seemed to deal with for generations without a problem. Again, that tells me that teachers want to practice avoidance, not necessarily deal with the issues of socialization.
I don't disagree with you on the discipline subject. There just seems to be a lack of respect for anything or anyone these days...I have my theories about that, but that is irrelevant.

It's interesting to hear that my generation of teachers are being taught so dramatically different than past generations (at least where I go) and that even someone who has only been out of school for 10 years??? can have such "old school" learnings in comparison to what I'm learning now. I don't just embrase anything I'm told, I do consider and weigh the options and go with what I feel is best...I don't know if you could tell but I practice extremely liberal beliefs and values...so I find that is a reason I clash so much with what others think and value.

I do have to ask if you truely believe there is nothing wrong with the education system???? I know many things that are wrong with the education system....I guess you missed the Oprah on the state of education in the US, which can easily be applied to pretty much anywhere else in the world, not to mention all of the small things that all add up to cause great problems.



I just think that the one thing we can be happy with and agree to is that we as teachers, can both have a common goal to educate children and yet have such different beliefs and ways to go about it and having that option and diversity is something that I truely love about my country.
post #41 of 57
I will take "old school" any day.
post #42 of 57
Ilovesiamese, it was me who gave you the sarcastic reply, and the reason was that I was appalled at what appeared to be the arrogance of the statement that you would respect my wishes not to medicate my child. Have we come so far that this has become the norm and that teachers expect it?!?

And if you don't want to teach games like tag or Simon Says, then don't. But on the other hand, don't forbid the kids to play it in their "free time" either.

I have no doubts that your kin prof has created a Power Point presentation. That does not validate the content. As a matter of fact I have done some teaching at that level myself. I was a university professor for 7 years, and have had 600 freshman in my class, so I understand a little bit about presentations. All I can say is that if he/she has never been in the front of the room with all those young faces, I would not necessarily believe what he/she is saying. Miyasmom however can teach my kids any day.

It is not that I want anyone to fail-what I want is for them to experience failure. That is not quite the same thing. Back when kids were allowed to choose sides for dogeball in Phys Ed, I was close to the last kid picked. I was a four eyes who could not run very fast. As a matter of fact, I took some "math test" in 9th grade just to get out of gym class and was surprised when I finished in the top 10 % of the state-including all kids in high school. So I was lousy at one thing by good at another. And I have made up for my lack of athletic qualities by working out and jogging/biking/hiking regularly. At 48 I am (unfortunately) in far better shape than most 15-20 yr olds in the US. I believe that you learn more from your failures than from your successes. And it can be a powerful motivator.

I am of the opinion that by not allowing anyone to fail at anything (we are ALL winners!") we are embracing mediocrity. After all, if you can be a winner without even trying, why put any effort into it? And the worst part is that these twenty-somethings who have been babied all their lives are now themselves parents.

No, the schools are not responsible for the ills of society, they merely mirror society, and they should not be blamed for the ills. Just as you should not be "blamed" for voicing your opinion on this forum. You are obviously in the minority and that is a difficult spot. Rigth now you probably feel like a lightening rod. I picture you as sincere and idealistic. But I worry that you seem to take everything that is being taught to you as the truth. This is the same problem I had with some of my graduate students. If it was published in a journal, they thought it must be true. Not that simple.

Educators have been monkeying around with what schools should be doing for decades. When I was in grade school the 'big deal' was "new math'. I think I was one of three kids nationwide that benefitted from it. After the Russians had sent up Sputnik, there was an outcry that the US was falling behind in the race to educate scientists and engineers. And so "new math" was supposed to solve the problem. Instead of teaching little kids how to add and subtract and maybe make change, our poor teachers had to teach us base 2 (binary) base 3, etc all the way up to base 12 or maybe 16. I still remember the posterboard with what looked like little bundles of dynamite sticks. "Two in the hundred's place plus seven in the ten's place plus five in the one's place, plus five in the hundred's place plus six in the ten's place plus four in the one's place equals nine in the one's place plus thirteen in the ten's place -oops that's another one in the hundred's place but three now in the ten's place - and finally eight in the hundred's place, or 839". I am not surprised that there are people my age who still hate math. They were doing that to us in 2nd grade.

The other pile of hooey was using "phonics" to teach kids to read English. We were supposed to "sound out" the words. Cripes English is almost like Chinese in some respects;we have inherited so many different conventions for pronunciation that there ARE no general rules, it is almost like looking at a picture instead of a sequence of letters. Lucky for me I could read, write and do math before I entered the puclic school system, or they would have confused the heck out of me. I certainly think they confused a lot of other kids.

Now we have "no child left a dime"; more idiots who have never been up in front of the room monkeying with the system. Is it any wonder that more and more parents are opting for home schooling? The schools are political footballs. And I do not need to watch "Oprah" to know that - not that I would, I also do not watch Jerry Springer and 20/20 and most of the trash that passes for informational television these days.

Good luck to you ilovesiamese, and I betcha the day comes when you come to the conclusion that some of your profs were blowing smoke.
post #43 of 57
IloveSaimese, I don't think anyone is getting sarcastic with you, so please don't feel that way. However, I do feel the idea of banning any of these fun games has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. This statement isn't against you, but to that stupid college prof who feels he/she knows all. What are kids supposed to do during recess now, read a book or do their homework? Give me a break!! All these games you had mentioned are fun games for kids and not are they only fun, but they are a great source of natural learning and exercise. These games do not produce bad kids, in fact,the opposite is true. Since most kids don't get any socialization any more, because they are stuck in front of their computer or video games. Most parents use these devises as baby sitters, so they don't have to deal with their kids. THAT is the problem, NOT the schools!! Yes, I feel our schools need a lot of help, because many do not have the money to keep up with the proper educational materials. I really feel sorry for kids today. I am so gald I am NOT a kid now, I would be missing out on a lot of fun. I wouldn't know how to think or feel, because some stupid university prof says that's how it should be. This is so wrong. Kids MUST learn what life is all about at an early age, otherwise, they will never make it to adulthood. If we keep teaching kids to hide their feelings, not to let them feel ambarrassed or have their feelings hurt and to have bad parents who are not there for their children, we are in a world of trouble. Good fun games, such as the ones mentioned, teach good basic social skills, even if this means a few kids may be left out or picked on. In that case, these children need to be taught how to deel with those feelings. I know I am just rambling now, because this liberal thinking makes no sense to me. It is just stupid. I also have to say that since I, as a TAX payer, PAYS for childrens education, if I want them to be able to play these games in school, then they should be allowed to. Recess is about having fun and for a brief period, to forget about school for a little while. That helps clear the mind, so the kids can come back to class refreshed and ready to learn more. Yes, even though they would be having fun playing these games at recess, they really don't know that they are still learning very important social skills
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I believe that you learn more from your failures than from your successes. And it can be a powerful motivator.
Yes, this is so very true!!
post #44 of 57
AmberTheBobcat, you're making some really good points. Kudos.

I can't believe musical chairs, tag, and simon says are banned as "dangerous to children". thats INSANE.

I wasnt the most popular kid at school. I was often picked last for things. Now I'm grown up, and guess what? I'm FINE. Going through that most likely made me a stronger person, and as someone said, it drove me to try differen things, until I found some that I'm good at (writing, music). I don't understand this compulsion to protect kids from every single negative feeling they might have. I don't even know that I'd want to HAVE kids in a word were TAG and SIMON SAYS are banned.

It reminds me of hearing about a few towns that made it so that the kids hockey teams couldnt win. If a team got up by more than two points, they had to give up a player. INSANITY. Losing builds character. It makes you work harder. Walking back to the locker room after that 6-0 shut out makes you think "man, next time we are going to DO this no matter how hard I have to work, how much I have to practice". It's healthy and normal.

I'm still stuck on the fact that those games were banned. What's next? Banning conversation in school in case someone says something mean to someone else?
post #45 of 57
I think a lot of this stems from a general lack of desire on the part of parents to take responsibility for their own children. We don't want to sit down and observe what kinds of video or computer games our children play, or explain to them the difference between make-believe and the real world; we want the powers that be to ban violent video games so that we don't have to make the decision ourselves. We don't want to teach our children to be good sports or learn how to bear defeat (and winning!) gracefully; we want our schools and sports teams to ban the concept of winning, and to take away games where it's possible that children could feel left out or not perform well. We don't want to teach our children healthy eating habits; we want our schools to ban junk food and soda pop machines. We don't want to monitor what kind of television shows or movies our children are watching; we want the television stations to censor themselves.

Why is it so terrible to take responsibility for ourselves and our children? Growing up, I was shy and sensitive, and I was picked last for every sports team imaginable -- without fail. You know what? I grew out of it (well, okay, maybe not the being picked last for teams part -- I still demonstrate a remarkable lack of athletic talent, not to mention coordination ...). I played violent video games (although we're talking 8-bit -- not the cat -- Nintendo and Atari here) and aggressive physical games with friends, and my parents actually talked to me about them. I watched violent movies and television shows, and can remember discussing them with my parents, or discussing hot-button topics with my folks (Degrassi in all its forms provided a wonderful basis for excellent conversations with my parents). Maybe I just had the benefit of really great parents (okay, I know I did), but why is it too much to ask that parents be the ones responsible for raising their own children? Why are we placing the onus on the government and the education system?
post #46 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirinae View Post
but why is it too much to ask that parents be the ones responsible for raising their own children? Why are we placing the onus on the government and the education system?
I agree, Mirinae...I believe that these restrictions are a knee jerk reaction to the Columbine et al tragedies and the fact that schools don't want to be liable when overzealous parents decide to blame/sue the school for what they did/didn't/couldn't do...

I do think that it takes a village to raise a child. However, excessive restrictions are not the way to go. And whatever happened to receiving awards for ability or talent? In my daughter's school, they are giving out awards to everyone for every thing! IE, everyone in gym class gets a merit award or valuable player award or just freakin' showing up award...
It's getting ridiculous.

We need to instill in children that hard work and effort results in reward!

I do understand somewhat what Ilovesiamese is attempting to convey and I would love to see games that foster co-operation and common goals offered alongside other traditional games, but not in lieu of those games.
post #47 of 57
Let the kids play, Yes they may get hurt, but that's just part of being a kid. Teachers and aids just have to do what they've been doing for years, keeping their eye of the kids. Why don't they ban all sport what so ever, they might get hurt. Give me a break!!
post #48 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
Ilovesiamese, it was me who gave you the sarcastic reply, and the reason was that I was appalled at what appeared to be the arrogance of the statement that you would respect my wishes not to medicate my child. Have we come so far that this has become the norm and that teachers expect it?!?

Now we have "no child left a dime"; more idiots who have never been up in front of the room monkeying with the system. Is it any wonder that more and more parents are opting for home schooling? The schools are political footballs. And I do not need to watch "Oprah" to know that - not that I would, I also do not watch Jerry Springer and 20/20 and most of the trash that passes for informational television these days.

Good luck to you ilovesiamese, and I betcha the day comes when you come to the conclusion that some of your profs were blowing smoke.

I was sincerely not being arrogant at all. You must realize that in a class there is going to be a number of children with parents who have many different values and I was just trying to convey that I would try my best not to disrespect those values, but on the other hand I can never please everyone.

I don't know about where you live, but it was not that long ago that the education system had separate and "special" schools for children with disabilities and behavioral issues and that teachers now a days are expected to take on a lot more in terms of exceptionalities in their students and I can understand where the fustration comes from.

No child left behind is an American thing (as far as I know)....so I won't comment on that, but I do have an oberservation that I've made and that is that I find that Americans are much more concerned with the value of competition than where I live. I think there is a movement towards community rather than fostering feelings or desires to compete with one another.....man I can't wait until I take the co-op class that is all about why competition is bad and why we should aviod competition so I can tell you all about it and see what you say then....

Actually, I value that Oprah sometimes brings up subjects that are otherwise ignore or forgotten by the general public and that it also reaches a wider target group of people. I wouldn't place that as a top source of information, but I would say I value you it for what it is and Who watcher Jerry Springer?!?!.....I can't believe you'd class Oprah in with Jerry...

Like I said before, I don't always except information at face value, but I weigh all information I get and then make a decision based on what I feel is best for me and my future students.

....AMber....I just find it odd that you say that you think it's so stupid and
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to that stupid college prof who feels he/she knows all.
because by saying this, it seemed to me that you are doing the same as that prof, just in the complete polar oppposite opinion.

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I know I am just rambling now, because this liberal thinking makes no sense to me. It is just stupid. I also have to say that since I, as a TAX payer, PAYS for childrens education, if I want them to be able to play these games in school, then they should be allowed to.
This liberal thinking makes a lot of sense to me and by you calling all of this stupid compeletly discredits my thoughts and feeling and probably a lot of other peoples (just not around here hehe) and that's not fair either.

What about the parents who pay taxes and DO NOT want this to happen in the schools???


I guess I just don't see or understand the value of competition because my values are more geared towards community learning and achievements and I'm not saying that your's are wrong, but I don't think that my values are stupid either.
post #49 of 57
I don't see what is wrong with special schools, as long as they are run properly and giving the children qualified teachers and the proper facilities in which to help children learn and grow. Japan has a lot of "special" schools and many of the children go on to colleges. Again, the problem is the parents. Some of them live in complete denial and this hurts the child's education. I worked in a school that constantly lied to parents by saying we were all qualified to teach special children, when in fact few of us had those qualifications. It's because some parents were ashamed their children were somehow "abnormal". Grrrr.

I think competition is valued in most societies, and Canada is no exception. If that were not true, everyone would be in bed because there would be no motivation to do anything. Competition is a natural part of the human experience. There is no reason to demonize it.

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This liberal thinking makes a lot of sense to me and by you calling all of this stupid compeletly discredits my thoughts and feeling and probably a lot of other peoples (just not around here hehe) and that's not fair either.

What about the parents who pay taxes and DO NOT want this to happen in the schools???
Gee, that's not very liberal of you. For me, it doesn't even have to do with being a taxpayer as it has to do with CHOICE. There should be the option there to teach the games, you don't elliminate the choice all together. If another taxpaying parent does not want their child to participate in competative games, then they should have the option of taking their child out of the situation if that is what they want.

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I guess I just don't see or understand the value of competition because my values are more geared towards community learning and achievements and I'm not saying that your's are wrong, but I don't think that my values are stupid either.
Yeah, but aren't you competing right now?
post #50 of 57
Wow! What will they ban next? Pencils??? Because they could use those as a weapon to injure their classmates with....or even better...they might just have to ban paper also, becaues paper cuts can be leathal Seriously! What are those people thinking???
post #51 of 57
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I think competition is valued in most societies, and Canada is no exception. If that were not true, everyone would be in bed because there would be no motivation to do anything. Competition is a natural part of the human experience. There is no reason to demonize it.
I have to agree, Canada is not some nice socialist society where there will be a job for everyone and no one has to feel left out, there is also poverty, hardship, marital breakdown and all the other 'not nice things that happen in every society. Yes, Canadians on the whole may seem more friendly, but I can't help thinking that we are just setting these kids up for a fall in a society that they can not be prepared for if we wrap them up in cotton wool.

I still think there is something very wrong when we turn a blind eye to children with mp3 players, cell phones etc in school and tell them that they can't run around and play games for fear of getting hurt (physically or emotionally).

Some schools are now removing swings and slides because children may walk to close and get kicked in the head. When I was in school they painted the area around these a different colour so you watched out for things like that - it is almost as if we want to foster a society that is not well equipped for life.

I also feel that by doing this, there are parents that are going to push their children into organised sports in an attempt to let them have something to release their frustrations and get out of the classroom/education for a bit (the whole idea of recess) and that by never letting them learn the 'natural selection' of playground games they will be even less equipped for that!

Other schools are implementing rules that children may not stand in groups of 3 or more, are we now scared that there will be "gangs" of 7 years olds running around in the playground?
post #52 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyas_mom View Post
I don't see what is wrong with special schools, as long as they are run properly and giving the children qualified teachers and the proper facilities in which to help children learn and grow. Japan has a lot of "special" schools and many of the children go on to colleges. Again, the problem is the parents. Some of them live in complete denial and this hurts the child's education. I worked in a school that constantly lied to parents by saying we were all qualified to teach special children, when in fact few of us had those qualifications. It's because some parents were ashamed their children were somehow "abnormal". Grrrr.

Firstly, I don't agree with "special schools" or in segregating anyone any from the rest of society just because they don't fit the norms.


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I think competition is valued in most societies, and Canada is no exception. If that were not true, everyone would be in bed because there would be no motivation to do anything. Competition is a natural part of the human experience. There is no reason to demonize it.
Oh I agree every country/society has some sort of competition...my observation is that I find that most Americans take competition to a whole new level...like gee....if there was no competition, there would be no point in getting out of bed and then if you don't get out of bed...what is the point of exisiting?

If all I had to live for were competition...that is a reason I would not want to get out of bed in the morning...how sad. I live everyday for my family, to enjoy nature and just being here.. I get up to learn something new and to make new friends...none of those activities invovle competition, they could, but for me, there isn't.


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Gee, that's not very liberal of you. For me, it doesn't even have to do with being a taxpayer as it has to do with CHOICE. There should be the option there to teach the games, you don't elliminate the choice all together. If another taxpaying parent does not want their child to participate in competative games, then they should have the option of taking their child out of the situation if that is what they want.
That is what I was trying to get at by asking about the otherside. I'm thinking that I don't see what there is such contraversy because tag is only ban at schools...there are evenings and weekends to get out there and play with your kids, nieces and nephews and it's only in Mass.

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I guess I just don't see or understand the value of competition because my values are more geared towards community learning and achievements and I'm not saying that your's are wrong, but I don't think that my values are stupid either.

Yeah, but aren't you competing right now?
Nope, I'm just stating how I feel and what I think...I'm not saying my beliefs are any better or worse, just that I deserve a little respect too.
post #53 of 57
I'm just thinking that the problem could be solved with the schools would supervise recess. It seems like a no brainer IMO. Their entire reason for banning tag was no supervision.

Kids have to run off that energy somehow. Seems like the same teachers that say "no tag" will be complaining about the kids acting up for having to much pent up energy.

I think the whole thing is nuts. Only in America.
post #54 of 57
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Firstly, I don't agree with "special schools" or in segregating anyone any from the rest of society just because they don't fit the norms.
I just KNEW you were going to misinterpret my statement and bring in the ol' "you're segregating special students!" argument.

A child who has a mental, emotional or learning disability needs a special set of resources that other students do not need. If you stick one of these students in a class of 20 children, you are doing them a complete disservice. Often times, parents insist on having their special needs children in a class of students who does not have special needs because they, themselves, are too proud to admit their children need these resources. This is completely wrong.

At the same time, there are a lot of teachers who have to handle special needs children who have neither the training nor the patience to deal with their needs, so these kids get left behind in the dust. A good secial need school will address these needs and help children to excel inspite of their disabilities.

Sometimes this whole "inclusive education" stuff does more harm than good because some educators pay too much attention to what parents want rather than what the children need.
post #55 of 57
Kallie, I believe you're arguing from the point of view of a person who is leaning theories, but has no practical teaching experience. Your views may very well change once you have had a few years of teaching experience under your belt.
post #56 of 57
Actually, I do have practical in class and in school experience....only about a year but it is still some. Because I had good marks, I got direct entry into education and so I get to student teach/ intern 3 times, plus my specific college does a lot of group teacher and pair teaching from day one of first year, plus I worked in an ESL class room for 6.5 months, and I've taught in New Mexico a couple times too, plus my other experience. I know that is only a fraction of what some other's expeirence, but it should not be discounted either.
post #57 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyas_mom View Post
I just KNEW you were going to misinterpret my statement and bring in the ol' "you're segregating special students!" argument.

A child who has a mental, emotional or learning disability needs a special set of resources that other students do not need. If you stick one of these students in a class of 20 children, you are doing them a complete disservice. Often times, parents insist on having their special needs children in a class of students who does not have special needs because they, themselves, are too proud to admit their children need these resources. This is completely wrong.

At the same time, there are a lot of teachers who have to handle special needs children who have neither the training nor the patience to deal with their needs, so these kids get left behind in the dust. A good secial need school will address these needs and help children to excel inspite of their disabilities.

Sometimes this whole "inclusive education" stuff does more harm than good because some educators pay too much attention to what parents want rather than what the children need.

That is just how I took it. I agree that these students need specific help. My two younger sisters have a type of learning disability and I agree that they need teachers that have more extensive knowledge and training other than just an ed degree, but I don't think they should be segregated into a separte school.

I actually went to school with some people with exceptionalities and they were the ones who didn't want to be separated. They want to be seen as human first and not just this "disability", so coming to "normal" school helps with that, plus with their socialization, so I partially agree with you.
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