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sharky

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I have a question
... I picked up a dog magazine and was reading the ads from breeders and came accross this...Champion line breed ... Is this okay to do constantly??? I have understood line breeding should be done only by someone who knows what there after and can avoid the "genetic "pitfalls ... Would any of you line breed constantly and if so why???
 

goldenkitty45

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If you really know your pedigrees and keep track, you can line breed a lot without bringing an outcross in. But most breeders will mix the outcross in every few generations.

You have to be careful of outcrosses because you might bring in undesirable traits; again you have to know how to read pedgrees beyond the 3-4 generations.
 

bengalbabe

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every purebred animal has some amount of linebreeding (which is another term for inbreeding but just not as closely as inbreeding suggests). That's how a purebred is created and that's how traits are set. Some amount of inbreeding is needed if you have specific goals in mind to develop certain traits. As Goldenkitty brought out though, outcrossing every so often is also nessacery to keep the lines healthy. When you do that though your bring undesirable traits back into your lines. Then you have to start the process again with selected animals that carry the traits your working towards, eliminating any animals that show health problems (which WILL show themselves when inbreeding) and keeping only the healthy ones for breeding.
Inbreeding will help you to discover any hidden health problems in your lines which can be a good way to weed out any of those undesirable things as well.
 

callista

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Why would you breed cats whose offspring you know are more likely to have health problems?
 

bengalbabe

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If you are responding to my post, I don't think you understood my post. I was saying that inbreeding will help you discover any hidden bad health genes you won't otherwise know existed. If you discover those genes you can then take those animals OUT of your breeding program. Inbreeding can be a way to bring those genes to light where otherwise you didn't know they were even in your lines.
On the other side of the coin, you may not have any hidden bad genes and inbreeding will show that as well.
Really, the offspring carry what they carry. Inbreeding doubles up on that gene. If they are born sick it's because they carried that recessive gene IN THE FIRST PLACE. You did not cause the problem by inbreeding, you only discovered that it was there by doubling up on it so it can express itself.
Linebreeding IS inbreeding except it not as closely related individuals as actual inbreeding.

As far as why anyone would want to inbreed/linebreed, it would be to set a trait. You cannot develop a trait without linebreeding. If your breedings are purely random, you never know what to expect and you will never be able to develop a certain "look", "type" or "temperment"

It is true that all purebreds are less vigerous then mixed breeds. That is why outcrossing becomes nessacery every once in awhile. If you have unhealthy animals. NO they should NOT be bred. They should be taken OUT of your breeding program.
 

callista

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Hmm... so basically you are line breeding so that you can see whether there are recessive genes that cause genetic illnesses?

I guess I was thinking that when two related cats had kittens, there would always or almost always be such genetic problems; so, I figured, why do you do it? It wouldn't make any sense if there were so many that you had to retire just about every cat you bred... but you're saying that there aren't that many, right?

I'll admit I understand genetics well enough, but their practical application in breeding is something I've never really studied. When you encounter genetics in biology class, you are given rather isolated sets of traits--blue eyes, brown eyes, green eyes; red, pink, and white flowers; and so on--but when you are breeding cats you have a huge amount of genetic information being passed on to each kitten, and interacting; and you don't know what's being passed on unless it's dominant or unless the kitten has two recessive genes... So it's like trying to figure out what's inside the black box. High school biology doesn't really get into that much. :p
 
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sharky

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Originally Posted by Callista

Hmm... so basically you are line breeding so that you can see whether there are recessive genes that cause genetic illnesses?

I guess I was thinking that when two related cats had kittens, there would always or almost always be such genetic problems; so, I figured, why do you do it? It wouldn't make any sense if there were so many that you had to retire just about every cat you bred... but you're saying that there aren't that many, right?

I'll admit I understand genetics well enough, but their practical application in breeding is something I've never really studied. When you encounter genetics in biology class, you are given rather isolated sets of traits--blue eyes, brown eyes, green eyes; red, pink, and white flowers; and so on--but when you are breeding cats you have a huge amount of genetic information being passed on to each kitten, and interacting; and you don't know what's being passed on unless it's dominant or unless the kitten has two recessive genes... So it's like trying to figure out what's inside the black box. High school biology doesn't really get into that much. :p
From what I know of line breeding it is usually not siblings but father to daughter ... mother to son ... grandpa to granddaughter ...


Thank you for the lessons ladies... I have a better understanding as to why ... still dont think it should be advertised but ..lol.. what do I know
 

pat

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Sharky,

Fwiw, if the ad read "champion line breeding" to me, that is the same as saying "champion lines" just awkwardly put... not that the animals are line bred from champions. I think it just meant that there are champions in the pedigree.

I've been known to read things differently than others, but that is how I would have meant it if I were writing that ad.
 

goldenkitty45

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Father/daughter and Mother/son breedings are considered INbreeding - not linebreeding. Line is father-granddaughter or Mother-grandson; cousins, uncle/aunt, etc.

Inbreeding would also include the siblings. I've seen 1/2 brother/sisters that are bred, but IMO that is more inbreeding too rather then line breeding.


I would read the champion line breeding and champion lines different. To me, the ch. line breeding would be the above where father and granddaughter are both champions or better.

You can take 2 different lines (totally unrelated) and both have champion cats - that would be champion lines but not line-breeding.
 
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