Sounds and scratches

2dogmom

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I thought Brady had been hissing at me. I have been listening more closely and now I think it is a little wheeze sometimes when he breathes, not a hiss.

He partied last night in the room, the balls were all over the place, and this little house type thing (cloth with entry big holes on three sides) was overturned.
And more and more he comes out from under the bed when I am there. After his breakfast this morning he came over to me, sniffed my hand, rubbed his head on it, sniffed my slippers, and then while my hand was dangling near my leg (I was sitting cross-legged on the floor) he pounced on it, scratched me and scuttled back under the bed. Am I right that him scratching me was not a form of aggression but maybe some kind of rough-and-tumble affection or even just a reflex?


Oh and two days in a row he peed in front of the litter box. The first time I cleaned it up and put an old mattress pad on the floor. The second time (this morning) I put a carpet remnant down. To remedy him peeing out of the box I put dirt in his box again in the post where he used to pee (back right corner) to see if this will help.
 

jkrodger

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First of all, YAY, he's back to rubbing his head on your hand? That's awesome! Looks like the set-back didn't last too long. From the way it sounds, the scratch was most likely a rough-n-tumble play, ferals don't usually know to keep their claws in when playing with humans! But that's still great!

Second, I'm wondering if he doesn't like going in the enclosed litterbox, is he still pooping in there? If he is, he might be one of those picky cats that doesn't like to poop and pee in the same box. I think with ferals, the more comfortable they get in the home, the more spoiled they begin to act, so this could be it. I would definitely try spraying some Nature's Miracle or other type of product so he doesn't repeat those accidents in the same spot.

Finally, if he is wheezing, then it's probably time to take him to the vet, he could have an URI or just allergies causing him to sneeze and wheeze. It's a very good sign that he's apparently still very active, means his wheezing isn't slowing him down any. I would call your vet and describe the sound (maybe get a tape recording of it) and describe how often it is, tell him about Brady escaping for 4 weeks, etc. The vet should be able to give you better advice.

Congrats again, I'm glad he's turned around so quickly!
 
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2dogmom

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Hi jk,
He is pooing in there. Once he pooed outside the box, and the poo was kind of like pudding. It was also just after I put the cat carrier in the room.....
now his poo looks like tootsie rolls.


Believe me, if I were confident of my ability to scoop him up and put him into a box or carrier I would have done it by now.
I have only ever put cats into carriers or boxes who were comfortable being handled by humans. This boy starts at the slightest noise or motion. He has come out a couple of times now but I do not want to go for it, blow it and have him go back to hiding all the time. I am thinking it is better to give him a few more days so that he will come out long enough and not mind me moving around so that I can grab him and stuff him into a pillowcase or drop him into a box. He is much faster and warier than I am, and he has much better reflexes!!


My vet is on alert, also this same vet (actually they have multiple vets) practice had vetted and neutered him. He was due for 2nd FVRCP in July, but I think the fosters let it slide because they figured I would be adopting him soon.
 

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Did you describe the hissing/wheezing sound to the vet? Did they say anything?
 
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2dogmom

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Hi, nice to see you!!
No- he is no longer making any kind of wheezing noise and he has stopped hissing at me altogether.
As a matter of fact he is getting much friendlier. Yesterday evening I went in and out of the room several times (dealing w/litter box issues-Monsieur has decided he does not like his litter box at all, now he pees in front of it and poos NEXT to it. I had put down a mattress pad to protect the carpet after he had peed on the rug, now I have learned that they will pee to cover up smell of bleach or laundry detergent-it is just a never ending story
) and once when I was about to go out without having put down his food bowl, he ran out from under the bed and looked at me as if to ask "Hey, aren't you forgetting something?". So I gave him his food then and there. And when we were done with our little feeding ritual I sat down at the computer to check up on some pet sites. He came out from under the bed, rubbed his head on my shin and on the chair I was sitting on
and disappeared under the bed. That took him all of about 5 seconds.

This morning I saw that he had figured out how to open the plastic container of treats by pushing it onto the floor from the table it was on. So I was not successful in getting him to play 'have a treat' with me.

I think the worst is over (maybe??). He still will not stay out long enough for me to even think oif grabbing him to get him into a carrier, but my take on his behavior is that he likes me but is still very nervous.

I would REALLY like to get him doing his business in the box again. After reading the posts on this forum about what it could be it seems pretty daunting.
 

tru

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It may be time to get brave and get him into a carrier and to the vet.
He sounds like the type to me that if you just pick him up calmly he is not going to struggle as long as you have a confident grip on him. (More fear than ferocity). You just have to remember not to exhibit fear and nervousness when you pick him up. (I know, easier said than done.)


The going outside the box issues could mean health problems that need to be addressed. Considering he has had a fairly stressful past couple of months that wouldn't be too surprising.

Also, it may be a good idea to provide him with two boxes. I would offer one with a cover and one without to see if there were a preference. Go to this thread and you will find links for problems with pooping or peeing out of the box.

It sounds like things are progressing nicely with Brady. I hope they continue to do so.
 
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2dogmom

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tru I agree completely. I have been plotting how to get him into any kind of container to get him to the vet.

I think he does not like the hood on the litter box. As I said, I wanted him use to a hood so that when the box is out where the dogs can get at it they do not regard it as a candy aisle. Brady was ok with the hood and then suddenly wasn't. I removed it and cahnged the litter and now he is doing everything in the box again.
I think what may have triggered it was that I had left one of those "cat play cubes" in the room (looks like a tent with big entrances on three sides. The morning I came in and the other toys had been played with, the play cube was overturned, as if he had been in it. Maybe he scared himself.

So now I have changed my tactics slightly. I go in and sit down at the computer instead of feeding him. It doesn't take long and out he comes to rub on the chair and my legs.
His tail twitches the whole time though. If I pet him on the head fine, but if I accidentally touch his butt he hisses. And now he have a big breakthrough, when he eats from the bowl, his entire body is out from under the bed.
He still starts at any noise and scuttles back underneath for a moment. That is where the classical music helps, I think it covers the 'house noises' that are still unfamiliar to him.

Anyway, thanks again for your advice. Next step is the vet, I hope I can do that the 1st week in October!
 

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Awesome! I went away for a long weekend for a wedding in Chicago and came back to read the wonderful news! Sounds like he's doing great! Now don't be surprised when you have a minor set back once you get him to the vet, he'll be grumpy (think about what happened to him last time he was at the vets!), but it sounds like he's got a good turn-around time after his fits!

You may want to supply him with an uncovered litterbox for now, and slow add the cover (ex: try putting a ceiling (like a board over a desk or whatever may be near it) for a week, then may a large covering over it for a week or so and then trying the cover once he's adjusted to each level). Let me know if that sounds confusing, I could work on a clearer explanation.

Keep us posted!
 
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2dogmom

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Hi and hope you had a good trip!
He IS doing great. Our routine is now that I go in and sit down at the computer. Only AFTER he comes out from under the bed and rubs on me do I feed him.
I also figured out that he is scared of my HAND. I had been leaving it dangling to get him used to the smell, but apparently he did not like it. As I got to see him more and more I noticed that his ears were flattened. If I keep my hands on my lap when he comes out, his tail does not twitch and his ears are up. I can pet him, I just can't let him see my hand for very long.

So a couple of times I let the dogs in, one at a time. Brady didn't come out, but at least he got to smell them. Also I took and old blankie and wiped the dogs with it, then put it near Brady's food dish.
Yes, he will be grumpy after the vets, but I want him to have a clean bill of health.
 

jkrodger

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Sounds like you're doing all the right things. Have you also taken a Brady blanket out to the dogs? I know it helps sometimes so then they don't get quite as excited when they first get to meet the new kitty, especially if they've already got a cat friend in the house (do they? I don't remember). There are tons of great threads on here about introducing dogs and cats for the first time, but pretty much, there's gonna be a lot of hissing and hiding for awhile.

Hmm...about the hand, will he take a treat from your hand at all? That might be a good way to get him used to it. Also, try to find out if he's more nervous about an open hand or a closed hand. Whichever one he's less nervous with, try getting him to smell that, then pet him with that. Letting it just sit there like you're doing is great, it's very non-aggressive and let's him approach it on his own terms. You can also try handling a bit of catnip before hand, they tend to all love that smell and it might get him to associate your hand with something positive (I know our cats only like to lick catnip, but if he likes to bite catnip, this method won't work).

Good luck and thanks for keeping us updated, it drives me nuts when people get a bunch of advice from the board and then don't update us! Also...any recent pics of Brady? I bet he's camera shy and wouldn't like the noise, but if you happen to get any pics, feel free to post them!
 
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2dogmom

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Hi and thanks for your interest!
I was not ingoring you...my digital camera seems to have forgotten how to flash. Then the batteries died. Then I forgot the password for the site that I was using to upload photos.
So... wouldja mind terribly looking at his catster page? http://www.catster.com/pet_page.php?j=t&i=388439
The pics where there is a carpet are ones that I took. The other ones are his petfinder pics.
BTW he now has two litter boxes. One is hooded and one is not. I am going to edit the pics I took of his cat jail and post them.
I have a vet ppt on Thursday and I am going nuts. Not sure how to get him into the carrier...
 

jkrodger

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He's beautiful! Great pictures! I'm not quite sure what to tell you for Thursday. It sounds like your doing a great job with him so far and unfortunately, the vet trip will cause a set back but he'll forgive you soon after.

Definitely wear long sleeves and if you can still have full movement in your hands, gloves. This will protect you from his unavoidable struggle. Do you have someone there to help you get him in the carrier? That usually makes a huge difference! If you do, have them wait outside the room with the carrier and you'll want to go in there and try to either wrap in the towel like I explained before, or grab him (grab his scruff with one hand and kinda pin him to the ground, I know it sounds bad, but it's one of the easiest and safest ways to restrain them), then have the other person come into the room with the carrier. If you don't, then cover the carrier in a towel and bring it into the room and place it gently in a corner, trying not to bring attention to it, then proceed as above.

Good luck and let me know how it goes!
 

tru

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Originally Posted by 2dogmom

I have a vet ppt on Thursday and I am going nuts. Not sure how to get him into the carrier...
If the carrier is a one door front load, stand it one end so you can kind of drop him in and quickly shut the door. Remember to present, confidence, comfort and calm. (Sounds easy on paper!)


Good Luck!
 

thehouseofgods

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well a better way to get him aquainted would be to block of his hidding spots. as mean as it sounds, i have read online about cat hidding because when we first got our little girl shiva, she wanted to hide evrywhere... it recomends that you block off all the hidding spots and still have one palce where they can go but are able to look out of and that you can clearly see them in
not trying to be miss. noitall, just a friendly suggestion... it woudl certianly help in getting him in the carrier... i just bought one the other day and imediatly the my little girl luci started exploring it, so it leave it on the floor as an option for a bed, without the barred door on it... just so they are all familier with it and they dont freak out when it comes to do time :p

hop everything goes well
 

jkrodger

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Originally Posted by tru

If the carrier is a one door front load, stand it one end so you can kind of drop him in and quickly shut the door.
Good suggestion, I forgot to mention that, it's how we get our cats in the carriers too!
 
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2dogmom

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Well I had made a dry run at picking him up earlier this week (wearing thick suede gloves) and I did not even get him off the floor. I decided to try to let his food motivation help. The carrier is back in the room, door open. Twice I have put his food bowl just inside and he eats from it.

He is being VERY friendly, rolls on his side and gazes at me after he is done eating like he wants me to stay and play. I am figuring out when to stop petting him.

For the heck of it, after he was finished eating I put more food in the bowl and put it way in the back of the carrier. He hissed. Pretty clear he did not like the food being in there! We played a bit more and then he attacked my forearm. Great I said, I'll leave the food in the carrier with the door shut. Maybe he is smart enought to figure out how to open the door!

Oh he uses both litter boxes, and strews the litter around like a real pig. I bet if there were a seat on it he would leave it up!
 

jkrodger

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Haha, well yay for a bunch of progress.
I was wondering how he would take to the carrier being back in the room, I'm happy that he's still using both litter boxes after the previous incident. And the kicking of the litter everywhere is beyond normal!

So he'll eat the food if it's at the front of the cage but not the back, is that right? Try putting it in the middle, and for the first round of food, so you know he's good and hungry and more likely to go for it. If he'll go at least halfway in to eat it, then you can try this trick on Thurs. Put the food halfway in and when he's eating (and you have the gloves and long sleeves on) quickly push his back end in and lock the door. This may make him hiss a couple of times next week when you go to feed him, but he should get over the pretty quick.

I agree with the above poster on blocking off his hiding spaces. If you could do that this afternoon so he has a night to get used to it, then if gently pushing him in while he's eating doesn't work he won't have a lot of options to get into spaces you can't easily get him out of.

Really great work with him so far, when he attacked your forearm yesterday was it a real attack or do you think it may have been a play attack? Since he's feral, it's possible he was trying to play and just doesn't know his manners quite yet. With our cats when we played with them if they took out their claws or would "play bite" us too hard, we would say "Ouch!" fairly loud and pull our hand/leg/whatever away from the cat. This did spook them occasionally, but eventually they learned not to do those things.
 
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2dogmom

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The only place he hides is under the bed. I cannot block that off, and frankly I do not want to. I know with dogs it is very important for them to have a 'safe place' so I do not want to ruin that for Brady.

A friend of mine said to try the towel trick. Maybe I'll do that....

I am sure that he does not know how to play. So I am trying to teach him. I also am not sure that he understands that my hand (or fist if it is in the air) is connected to me. All in all I think he was annoyed at the ymmuy food being in the %$^#%& carrier. That coupled with him not being THAT hungry anymore, not knowing how to play and seeing my hand up in the air, he just went for ir.

So now let me post some pics of our "maximum security cat prison". I hope you enjoy them!

 

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Ok, my work computer has now refused to post my response 4 times, so I've shortened it b/c I'm tired of retyping...

1) does he usually keep a close eye on you while he eats? if not, this may be the best time to try the towel method

2) I'd be hesitant to leave under the bed an option for him when trying to catch him b/c if he hides under there, you're likely to get hurt when trying to get him

3) as far as the playing, since he's a feral, it's probably best to make a clear difference between playing and petting. I would get an active toy, like a stalk stick or "Da Bird" so he can "play hunt" with you, but when you're actually touching him, try to keep is calm (petting, brushing, etc) until he learns that your hands/arms/feet/legs/face/hair are not toys

4) also, the above poster is right, you'll have to try to be as calm as possible when catching him, my cats are really sensitive to my mood changes, especially stress!
 
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2dogmom

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Actually he has been eating with his back towards me. Pretty trusting, I'd say!! And he lay down yesterday and showed me his belly. Also came to the chair I was sitting on and lick my feet. I feel like a turd already for what I am about to do to him!! I don't suppose that throwing a towel over him when he eats will make him afraid of eating (?)


If I don't get him the first time I will just break the appointment and try some other day. The vet office is very understnding of numpty meowmies like me.



This boy has a ton of toys---I sort of got him to play with a thing that has a little fleece ball and feather on it. Right now I am not up for buying him anymore stuff. He does not seem to respond to catnip. I have a thing like a stalk stick, it makes a chirping noise when you yank on it. I think it scared him when he clawed it and it chirped.

Thanks for your interest......I will see how he is this evening. So far I think I have the best chance of getting him by throwing the towel on him when he comes over to rub on me.

Stay calm....yeah....
 
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