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Strengthening lines (Ocicat/Abby crosses)

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I recently read an artical in the recent UK Ocicat Club journal about strengthening lines of the Ocicat with the Abys. What are all your thoughts on this? Some of you know i may consider breeding my ocicat queen to a Bengal but after reading this artical i'm wondering if it might be a better idea for her to go back to an Abby...
post #2 of 13
Well, the Aby has been used during the development of the Ocicat so I think it's a good idea to use the Aby if "new bloos" is needed. It's a healthy breed (as long as cats with PRA and/or PK deficiency is excluded from breeding) and obviously the Aby has physical attributes that can be positive.

Controlled cross breeding can be very good for a breed.
post #3 of 13
Just finished reading an article about the history/etc. on the Ocicats. In the US they closed the open registration on breeding to siamese/american sh's I think in the 90's and they closed the breeding to abys in 2005.

You DON'T want to be mixing in the bengals. Unless Europe associations are different, they are NOT allowable outcrosses.

I would check with the club/standards/association and see what, if any, allowable crosses are still ok. If its not stated, then you don't just cross with the aby without "permission" - the kittens may not be registerable.
post #4 of 13
The European registries don't allow breeding Ocicats to any other breed. You can apply for cross breeding if your intent is to widen the gene pool and you have a well thought out plan. We do it with the Devon Rex (and other breeds) from time to time.
post #5 of 13
Devons are still allowed occasional outcrosses in American associations too. But you'll have to double check on the Oci and see if you still can outcross before you do it.

IMO there should be a good strong gene pool for them that outcrosses are not necessary. You still will get the non-spotted Ocicat in breedings today - either ticked like the aby or a swirled/marble look to them.
post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Devons are still allowed occasional outcrosses in American associations too. But you'll have to double check on the Oci and see if you still can outcross before you do it.

IMO there should be a good strong gene pool for them that outcrosses are not necessary. You still will get the non-spotted Ocicat in breedings today - either ticked like the aby or a swirled/marble look to them.

unfourtunatly that's not the case. there have been some litters recently throwing pectus and twisted legs. i'm worried about getting caught up in that. Trouble is really fine boned and has more of an oriental head i was hoping to cross her out to get her a little more full and not so fine. her temperment and colour is excellent and she's very smart and agile. Just read the artical in the Ocicat Muse for the UK Ocicat Club suggesting the outcrosses to some of this generation. Only been looking into the Bengal crosses since the Cheetoh experiments were going so well in the US. Been speaking to different people about it. still very up in the air. Trouble has just gone into her first heat. i'm waiting until she's at least 18 months before i think about a stud. she's just now 9 months.
post #7 of 13
I know there are a lot of different opinions on this but I personally would not wait until 18 months for stud. If your cat goes into active heat then waiting until they are at a certain age can be more dangerous than going ahead with breeding at a year or younger at times. I would not wait more than 2 or 3 heats otherwise you increase the risk of infection and other health problems. When it gets warm sometimes they will go into a heat that does not seem to end, these are too strong to let them skip to many. You might be lucky though that it is now cooler and she might go out of season for the winter months, she will be a nice age when the warmer months arrive.

I think if you researched your lines very well on both sides then you should be able to selectively avoid problem lines. I know with bengals there are lines or regions you avoid and many breeders will let you know what they think.
post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolarityBengals View Post
I know there are a lot of different opinions on this but I personally would not wait until 18 months for stud. If your cat goes into active heat then waiting until they are at a certain age can be more dangerous than going ahead with breeding at a year or younger at times. I would not wait more than 2 or 3 heats otherwise you increase the risk of infection and other health problems. When it gets warm sometimes they will go into a heat that does not seem to end, these are too strong to let them skip to many. You might be lucky though that it is now cooler and she might go out of season for the winter months, she will be a nice age when the warmer months arrive.

I think if you researched your lines very well on both sides then you should be able to selectively avoid problem lines. I know with bengals there are lines or regions you avoid and many breeders will let you know what they think.
yeh i'm one step ahead of you actually! we have given her an injection of delvosterone to hold her off. its also getting cold here summer is very gone. as for the research of the lines i've also done this and spoken to a few local breeders.
post #9 of 13
Be careful of giving her that stuff. It may delay heats, but it could also cause future problems too.
post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Be careful of giving her that stuff. It may delay heats, but it could also cause future problems too.

right well i'm sure my boss (a vet) and the vet we take her to who works with breeders and vets for shows know what they are doing. but thanks for worrying for us.
post #11 of 13
I'm kinda leary of the "artificial stuff". I had a cat (my 1st) who had a coat problem - lost his coat. At the time, it was found that the hormone drug Ovaban was good to bring back coats. Actually had 2 cats (neutered males) that used it.

Worked great - coats came back in and cats looked good. But over the years it was discovered that the hormone when used on males, caused cancer to develop and so they quit prescribing it. I lost both of my males to cancer - one at 13 yrs old and one much earlier - they both had the Ovaban for a few months to bring back the coat.

So while it was a vet prescribed thing, it was not a good thing for the cats in the long run.
post #12 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I'm kinda leary of the "artificial stuff". I had a cat (my 1st) who had a coat problem - lost his coat. At the time, it was found that the hormone drug Ovaban was good to bring back coats. Actually had 2 cats (neutered males) that used it.

Worked great - coats came back in and cats looked good. But over the years it was discovered that the hormone when used on males, caused cancer to develop and so they quit prescribing it. I lost both of my males to cancer - one at 13 yrs old and one much earlier - they both had the Ovaban for a few months to bring back the coat.

So while it was a vet prescribed thing, it was not a good thing for the cats in the long run.

thanks for that info but i think three vets and me reading about it has made me feel a bit better for using it i did worry at first because normally i working with breeding horses. we use hormonal treatment for the broodmares sometimes and i have gotten the stuff on my hands once or twice and missed my period for 6 months. i wasn't a happy bunny and i was very moody and bloated. i don't want my littler girl to go thru that. i looked into this and made sure she wouldn't feel too much discomfort and that there wouldn't be any adverse affects known for her. this isn't going to be an on going thing. i want to have one litter and then i will most likely have her spayed. infact i'm still debating on letting her have this one litter. she's just so small and fine and i worry for her. i may just spay her in the spring and get another queen for breeding in the future. but please don't assume i haven't done my research. i'm a bit of a nut when it comes to these things and i research the hell out of things on the internet, libraries, other breeders, and vets. i'm too much of a hypocondriac and worry wort with my babies not to.
post #13 of 13
I understand

Sad thing is that many people used the Ovaban before it was found out it was not the thing to use.

Talking to the Oci breeders I know the males should be 9-12 lbs - so I imagine the females are about 2, maybe 3 lbs less - not positive. How big is the male you are breeding to?

We want an oci male rather then a female. Ling's weird so I think she'd accept a male a lot better then a female
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