Question about indoor/outdoor for UK members

anakat

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Hi

He is an Oriental, basically a siamese but all one colour.
 

sims2fan

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Originally Posted by jennyranson

I will keep mine in at weekends during the hunting season, as I have heard that some hunters will target cats deliberately, as some drivers will.
They are a disgrace anyone who hunts (or to humanity in general)! Thats disgusting!
 
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cinder

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Originally Posted by TNR1

One of the biggest differences that I see is that bird groups aren't pushing for cats to be indoors as they are in the states:
Huh...that's news to me too. I would have never even considered it as one of the reasons I keep them inside. Perhaps because where I live is very rural, it's not as much of an issue as in other areas. In fact, I worry about the owls and hawks getting the cats! I'm not quite sure what I'd have to say to a neighbor who asked me to keep my cats inside so they wouldn't bother the birds. Let's see, there's... "Hello, your crows just woke me up. Could you shut them up?" and then there's "Excuse me, but you're birds are eating my strawberries." And "Yo...a bird just pooped on my car and it's ruining the paint!"


I'm not familiar with the effect of cats on bird populations, I'll suppose I'll have to read up on it. My first thought would be that people are probably somehow a part of the problem too. We usually are.


Added...Okay, I just read part of the study. (It's 28 pages, hard to read without printing it out) Big point so far, even well fed cats kill birds and unfortunately they don't differenciate between threatened and plentiful ones, so TNR is not a popular concept with these people. (Hunting for the sport of it...hmm, that sounds familiar) I'll have to read more.
 

tnr1

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Added...Okay, I just read part of the study. (It's 28 pages, hard to read without printing it out) Big point so far, even well fed cats kill birds and unfortunately they don't differenciate between threatened and plentiful ones, so TNR is not a popular concept with these people. (Hunting for the sport of it...hmm, that sounds familiar) I'll have to read more.
It isn't just a campaign against TNR (although feral cats are the ones caught in the cross fire) but a bigger campaign to keep ALL cats indoors. Also, be aware that the "study" is one side of the issue...but there are plenty of individuals and TNR groups that would argue that loss of habitat is the number ONE reason for any decrease in bird numbers.

Katie
 

sims2fan

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That's what my husband and I were thinking when we were duscussing this yesterday. I mean its doesn't make any sense that cats could possibly do this much damage. In the UK where many cats have outside access no one has been talking about a major decrease in birds due to cats. You would think if their theory is true it would be proven here. Plus we have plenty of bird-watchers here.

Loss of habitat sounds like it would make a lot more sense.

Cinders thanks for starting a great thread!

Found something interesting:

Despite the large numbers of birds killed, there is no scientific evidence that predation by cats in gardens is having any impact on bird populations UK wide. This may be surprising, but many millions of birds die naturally every year, mainly through starvation, disease, or other forms of predation. There is evidence that cats tend to take weak or sickly birds. We also know that of the millions of baby birds hatched each year, most will die before they reach breeding age. This is also quite natural, and each pair needs only to rear two young that survive to breeding age to replace themselves and maintain the population. It is likely that most of the birds killed by cats would have died anyway from other causes before the next breeding season, so cats are unlikely to have a major impact on populations. If their predation was additional to these other causes of mortality, this might have a serious impact on bird populations...Research shows that these declines are usually caused by habitat change or loss, particularly on farmland.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/helpin...y_of_index.asp

This is from the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (RSPB).
 

epona

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The decline in certain bird species in the UK has more to do with destruction of hedgerows on agricultural land, use of pesticides on crops (meaning less insects for birds to feed on), and in urban areas there is an additional problem of birds such as sparrows eating salty junk food from the pavement and from bins. Pigeons can deal with eating salt, but sparrows and finches can't.

My cat is indoor only as I live in a 2nd floor flat. This is definitely an oddity though, the vet assumed he would be going outside after he was neutered, because that is the norm. Although I would rather take a rescue, I cannot adopt a cat because I do not have a garden, so when I wanted a cat I bought a kitten. I love him dearly, but it angers me that there is a cat in a shelter somewhere that I could have taken, if they allowed me to keep him indoors, which they don't. Also many people think it's cruel. I have heard it put this way: 'You want your cat to have a long life, but your cat has no perception of the future. Your cat lives in the moment and wants to stalk and hunt and play and feel the sun on its back now'. I'm not really sure how I feel about that to be honest.
 

rosiemac

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Both my girls are indoors.

My parents used to let their cats outside, but because they lived near a busy road the poor babies didn't get to live to an old age, so through that it taught me a lot.
 
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cinder

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The difference between blaming a feral cat or loss of habitat/food supply/etc for the death of birds might also have alot to do with one being more visual than the other. If you see a cat kill a bird, you know who is at fault. But the end result is pretty much all you *see* with the other problems. Maybe that's why cats get an inordinate share of the blame.


I'm a firm believer in TNR and the good it accomplishes. Still, there is always a downside to everything we do, even the solutions. If, in fact, altered colonies of cats were damaging bird populations somewhere, then being the resourceful creatures we are, I'd think we'd find a way to address the situation without destroying one species for the benefit of another. Anyway, you'd think so.

Although I would rather take a rescue, I cannot adopt a cat because I do not have a garden, so when I wanted a cat I bought a kitten. I love him dearly, but it angers me that there is a cat in a shelter somewhere that I could have taken, if they allowed me to keep him indoors, which they don't.
Epona, are these shelters no kill? Or would they possibly euthanize a cat before they would adopt it out to a home without a garden? I would find that disturbing.
 

epona

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Originally Posted by Cinder

Epona, are these shelters no kill? Or would they possibly euthanize a cat before they would adopt it out to a home without a garden? I would find that disturbing.
They are good places - while looking for a cat to adopt I tried the ones local to me, which are Celia Hammond Animal Trust, and Cats Protection League - neither will put a healthy cat to sleep, and they are good people who promote and offer low cost neuter/spay to people on state benefits or low income.

They will very occassionally have cats available for indoor placement, but it's usually because they are extremely timid and could not cope with being outside, very elderly and frail, or FIV+ and therefore safer indoors where there isn't the same risk of getting an infection. They are rare though, and all other cats go to homes with cat flap and garden.
 

deni

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Mine were Indoor cats for the first 5 years of their life, Ideally I would have preferred that they could go outside, but if I hadn't taken them in at 3 weeks they would probably have died. When they were 5 I moved to somewhere where they could go outside. One of them turned into an absolute rake, the other preferred being indoors. Catching local wildlife including rabbits, bats , mice and birds eventually turned into a novelty and they rarely ventured outside. They now live quite happily indoors, they have plenty of toys and things to play with, so they do not lack stimulation or exercise. I also think that you see a side to their personalities that you would not see if they were outside more often. They are certainly more affectionate and interactive with their human lodgers then previous cats I have owned that could go outside.
 
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