Are You As Upset By This As I Am????

gayef

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All too often, threads must be pulled from the public Forums for Moderator review because they start to get ... "unfriendly". Recently, such a thread was pulled from one of the Care Forums. As is normal policy, the original poster was PM'ed to inform her of the Moderator action and in the sole interest of helping her extremely needy cats, to offer assistance of a private nature. I think that everyone who posts on our Forums needs to see what happens when we cannot remember to be ... "friendly", so after editing a bit to protect the identity of the parties involved, here is the original poster's PM response:
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"Sorry, but no ... that thread was supposed to be about *** ... I just love it how everyone turned around and made me the enemy about my cats and only like 4 out of the 10+ response posts were even related to the thread topic.

So, thanks but no thanks ... I'll handle my problems on my own. And I won't be coming back to this site."
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It's been said countless times here that more flies are attracted with honey than with vinegar. It's clearly outlined in the Forum Rules and even more importantly, it is a matter of sheer common sense. The prime directive here is to help cats. So, it should be a very easy connection of clearly defined dots that if we want to help cats, then we have to treat the humans who care for them with kind understanding and gentle tolerance in order to keep them coming back, even if they frustrate the living heck out of us. If they go away and never come back, how can we possibly ever even hope to reach them?

We lost this one. We failed her and even worse, we failed her cats. This instance is different from others only insofar as we know she's not coming back, and that makes it an excellent example of what we must all remember in order to meet the goal of helping cats. Sadly, we cannot help her cats anymore, but it would add even further insult to injury if we don't use this as a learning experience, so we can hopefully prevent the loss of others in the future.

Please ... I am asking, no, begging ... can we try ~all of us~ to be patient with people, even when they are presenting a problem that is for us an old frustration, discussed to death already, and with simple solutions? Can we try to present our ideas and suggestions in a way that allows people to feel welcomed and safe here instead of criminalized and at blame? Can we try to remember that alienating people when they are being thick about things which seem horribly uncomplicated to us only serves to harm the very cats we have set out to help? And most importantly, can we shed our sense of indignant self-rightousness and remember that it isn't about US or what WE want or how it makes US feel?

I have been a Moderator at TCS for a long time now. I have developed many friendships with the people who post regularly in the Forums to which I have been assigned. Those of you who know me know that I take the loss of each and every member here due to the bad behavior of a few very, very personally. I do not like to feel as though I failed cats who are in genuine need of assistance. I literally go through stages of grief when it happens because I know those cats will continue to suffer and live in conditions way below the standard of care. And it just makes me sick to my stomach when I know it could have been prevented.

Please allow me to take this opportunity to say thank you to all of you for your participation in the Forums. We have helped so many more than we have lost. I sincerely hope that we'll all take this as a learning experience and move on, but keep it in the forefront of our minds when we post our responses from now on.
 

icklemiss21

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I hope you don't mind me adding to your post, I have posted a similar thread before on another board and a few other things that came up from that thread that we have to remember when replying to people:

~if the cat is already declawed, you can't put the claws back in so there is no point doing off on the decalwing debate, what is done is done, and not all feline problems come as a result of declawing... yes most people here would never do it, but we are here because we love and are educated about our kitties - the very thing those people are coming here for.

~remember that in different countries, animals are treated differently, it is not the 'norm' to keep a cat indoors, or speuter etc, and try to find out where the person is coming from before replying. Even if they are from the same country as you, they may have had absolutely no exposure to animals growing up and just need guidance. Being rude about what they are doing wrong rather than politely explaining why it should be done another way will just push those people away from the board and they won't read the positive responses as above.
 

sar

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Originally Posted by icklemiss21

~remember that in different countries, animals are treated differently, it is not the 'norm' to keep a cat indoors, or speuter etc, and try to find out where the person is coming from before replying. Even if they are from the same country as you, they may have had absolutely no exposure to animals growing up and just need guidance. Being rude about what they are doing wrong rather than politely explaining why it should be done another way will just push those people away from the board and they won't read the positive responses as above.
That is an excellent point to remember - as is the declawing one!


I have often had to bring this up myself as things can be done very differently here in the UK - as it can all over the world.
 

lovemycodygirl

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I totally agree with you...very well stated. People come to this site for a reason, whether it is in search of help, to learn about their cats or to just meet friends and chat about our favorite thing - CATS!

That is the EXACT reason why I am no longer on a member of the petfinder forums. I posted in defense of a dog owner...suggesting a different view...and several members ganged up on us and decided their "opinion" or "way" was the only way and we were both wrong and horrible people. It became very unfriendly instead of kind and helpful. To this day, I still remember how upset I was and I have not been back to those forums.

I do not know the entire story but I think we need to sometimes remind outselves to keep an open mind...that we are all different, we think differently, we live differently. TCS is a wonderful site with wonderful people - let's keep it that way.
 

arlyn

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Couldn't have said things better myself.
I know I've had to post these very same reminders in a thread or two in the past myself.

Educate please, do not condescend, and at the very least try to answer the questions asked in the first place, otherwise, you aren't even contributing to the thread.
 

stormy

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Very well said Gaye.


Also I think people need to realize that often people are truely in financial crisis and it is hard to get their pet treatment.
That they post here shows how much they care for their cats.

I myself have been hesitiant to post a time or 2 because I do not have bunches of cash available at all times and emergencies/illness don't wait for your wallet to get full.
 

neetanddave

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I belong to a variety of forums, from science fiction book discussions to NASCAR racing, Carolina Panthers football to Middle East discussions.

I also run a race fan forum. It was started as a direct result of the constant whining, griping, fighting, and even physical intimidations made by the unruly members that were not kept in line by either the moderators or the site owners. They had "secret" forums where they talked about other members.

I can quote the most repeated line from all those heated arguments: "it's just an internet board." As if saying that makes it less "real." What they failed to see was that behind the keyboards are living, feeling, caring humans, who take what is written as it is. There is no eye contact or body language to explain that "I was only joking around;" no
or
can replace those things, when you have just read a post that cut you to the quick. No
or
will make you feel better when someone has just (in your mind) implied that you are not a decent human being because of the post you made previously.

As a result, myself and 15 special friends from 8 states and Canada now sign in to a private, secure website where we can go to get away from the troublemakers without having to deal with their negative commentary or bs. We willingly pay money out of our own pockets to be able to socialize with people that we consider family and not have people that we casually converse with weigh in with their opinions and advice (which are often given out as smart remarks or
filled ramblings.)

Thanks for the reminder, Gaye, that this place is more than "just an internet board."
 

xocats

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There have been times when I have had to walk away from a thread until I got my head screwed on straight and remembered why we are all gathered here at TCS....
to learn how to better for these wonderful beings we call cats.

Thank you for this important reminder Gaye.
 

cinder

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I do not like to feel as though I failed cats who are in genuine need of assistance. I literally go through stages of grief when it happens because I know those cats will continue to suffer and live in conditions way below the standard of care.
gayef, I understand and share your concern for animals in need, but I don't think you should be beating yourself up over this and here's why...

It's great to share our experience and accumulated knowledge with others who need and ask for help, (yes, with polite tolerance), but thinking that a cat will continue to suffer if TCS doesn't provide the support needed is not necessary so.

Any owner who finds this site can find thousands of other resources. Do you really believe that after coming here for information, not liking what they're told (or the manner it was said) a person with animals in need would just say "Oh, to heck with it, let 'em suffer"? You know...that person probably does exist, but I'm not sure kid gloves and honey would make a difference. I don't think I ever saw this particular thread, but you obviously went the extra mile to offer help. It's not your fault they didn't accept. If it really matters to them, they will take the next step, pick up the phone, whatever it takes.

You deal with such a wide variety of pet owners here. Their resources, commitment and cultures vary. There are people on this board who live and breathe to take care of animals and would spend their last cent to provide for them. I doubt you will ever be able to completely remove the passion and directness with which some opinions and information are shared. And it's important to know that information shared here is often opinion and TCS has done a good job in pointing that out.

I guess the point of my ramble here is that I don't feel you failed anyone. The site does a good job of letting people share information and is probably more civil and moderated than most. It's a good reminder to play nice though.
 

luckygirl

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Well said Gayef & Icklemiss. People are less likely to concede to our ideas on spaying or declawing if we are judging and criticizing....

I myself had planned to spay LuckyGirl, but didn't know all the important facts that I got from tcs....also about declawing, I didn't know the whole procedure, I didn't know about other options. I certainly didn't want to harm my kitty & loved her dearly, but I was just ignorant to other options. I am thankful to tcs, I have learned about soft claws, and have been bragging ever since (insert me whipping out my LGirl pics with her red fingernails). I have since stopped 2 people that I know of from getting there cat declawed. And if people had jumped on me instead of educating me in a very friendly, helpful way, I may have left tcs uneducated and end up getting her declawed....
 

blueyedgirl5946

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I am sorry that happened. I would like to say how much I have enjoyed this site. I feel the folks are genuine and tender toward their cats, just like I am.
I have had some good help and comments from the people here. I appreciate it so much. Mostly, this site was a real source of support for me last summer when I lost my sweetie, Max. Thanks to all. I think this board is superior in every way.
 

sims2fan

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This is a great topic Gayef! I'm so frustrated when this happens as well. Some one from the UK started a thread about X and happened to mention that her cat was indoors/outdoors (as is quite common in the UK) and everyone started lecturing her. Hardly anyone answered her problem or tried to find out if her cat was neutered. I don't think she posted again.

I hope people read your example and think before they type. The kitties are more important than anyone's pride.

I just wanted to add that what upsets when people do these things is that there are much easier ways of getting your point across. A month ago I met a friend of the family who didn't plan on neutering her kitten. Instead of freaking out I explained to her that Kitty would go into heat and run out the apartment trying to find a mate and she may never find her way home. She called me yesterday from the vet she had just gotten her cat spayed.
 

gingersmom

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Excellent reminders folks. I absolutely agree that the best way to educate is to teach rather than give a negatively toned lecture. Especially to someone you don't know.

I do want to say to GayeF, though, I did read the thread you are referring to, and honestly, I don't think there is anything anyone here could have said, no matter how gently, that would have helped this particular person. She sounded to me like someone with serious emotional problems, using the idea that TNR people would "scare" her cats to reject the suggestion out of hand.

I can appreciate how you feel about those poor kitties she has, in the process of over- and in-breeding. I myself was and am very concerned at the fact that all the suggestions that were made to her were completely rejected by this person, harsh posts aside.

Please try not to let this eat at you too much - some people just aren't going to change, no matter how much they claim they want to, and some people just aren't going to accept help, no matter how much they claim to need it. You can't save them all, no matter how much you'd like to.

Please try to stay positive, as LuckyGirl has said - TCS has helped tons of cat owners already and continues to do so, better than any other cat forum I've been on over the last year, and for the most part, everyone here is kind, compassionate, supportive and respectful of others, despite all our differences. Because we all share one very important thing in common. Our love for felines.

I'm blessed to have found you all. And I'm looking forward to continuing to get to know more of you over time. Chins up! Head butts and purrs for all of the good work you ALL do in the name of kitty compassion!!!
 

cinder

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Originally Posted by Sims2fan

Some one from the UK started a thread about X and happened to mention that her cat was indoors/outdoors (as is quite common in the UK) and everyone started lecturing her.
Well, now you've got me curious. I'll start another thread to ask my question, since it probably doesn't belong here.
 

laureen227

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Originally Posted by xocats

There have been times when I have had to walk away from a thread until I got my head screwed on straight and remembered way we are all gathered here on TCS....
i've unsusbscribed from threads rather than leave the board. but i understand that's because i've already got relationships here. i'm not leaving because of a minority i disagree with.
& the indoor/outdoor thing - my sister's cat is an indoor/outdoor cat. they live in a quiet neighborhood with very little traffic, & he's a stray that adopted them when they were living in San Antonio. while i'd prefer it if he were an indoor-only kitty, she's an adult & makes her own decisions. she takes care of him, vets him, feeds him, etc - he's well treated & happy.
i have a friend here at school who has hand raised a pair of orphan kittens. she was bragging on their excellent litter habits, but then happened to mention planning to have them declawed when they went in for their spay. i told her that many cats developed a litterbox aversion after declawing, & sent her the softclaws link. had i not been a part of the site, i wouldn't have known this, as none of my own declawed cats have ever had litterbox issues.
education is a wonderful thing!
 

scamperfarms

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This is a good reminder.

Although i have to say it does get frusterating on some threads reading. where advice has been given, attempts have been made. and its all still ignored and pushed aside..

in the end of both situations the cats are the ones who lose out.
 

icklemiss21

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Originally Posted by ScamperFarms

This is a good reminder.

Although i have to say it does get frusterating on some threads reading. where advice has been given, attempts have been made. and its all still ignored and pushed aside..

in the end of both situations the cats are the ones who lose out.
The other side of it however is people looking for help may see that thread as the first post they look at, think we are all horrible and never bother joining / posting about their cat's problem when that 2nd member would listen to the advice given and act on it... so others are losing out because of it too
 
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