- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #101
I think @AbbyNTim is trying to work out a formula for her cats, I *think* due to a chicken allergy? Maybe she can weigh in.
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Vet's Best Hairball Relief - Interesting observation
- Thread starter peaches08
- Start Date
Yep, that's me. Tim has a suspected chicken sensitivity, so I made a blend that consists of two 500mg capsules of psyllium powder, one 455mg capsule of marshmallow powder, and 1/4 tsp (approx 375mg) of slippery elm powder. According to the label, these are the active ingredients in the remedy. This makes 20 doses, each roughly equivalent to one tablet. I am mostly eye-balling the doses and Tim is getting one per evening. The first week, things were working wonderfully. We're dealing with slightly soft stools right now, however, and I'm not sure if it's this or something else, so I may tweak his dose slightly. But he's had some nice, hairy poops so it seems to be doing what it should.
On another note, Tim is finally off cisapride (last dose was Friday, June 27) and once we are sure he is having BMs regularly on his own, the holistic vet will clear us to start slowly transitioning to raw. This may be as soon as a few weeks. So I'll be joining y'all and may have lots of questions. We are excited!
Thank you,
abbyntim
, I may have to try that as both Tuxedo and Sheldon threw up hairballs last night. 
The slippery elm syrup alone is not going to work.
How do you give this mixture to them?
Carolina is using the new tablets. Her cats are eating them, though they don't "love" them.
abbyntim
, I may have to try that as both Tuxedo and Sheldon threw up hairballs last night. The slippery elm syrup alone is not going to work. How do you give this mixture to them?
Carolina is using the new tablets. Her cats are eating them, though they don't "love" them.
Must be the flying saucer shape they love. Maybe try sanding the edges down to try and fool em.
I suspect you're correct about them having a different smell due to the manufacturing process - perhaps a different lubricant on the machines or something. Or maybe they have less chicken (or chicken liver, or whatever it is) in them than before.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #106
Thank you for sharing the recipe, @AbbyNTim. Hopefully that will help yours and someone else. Please let us know how yours get on with this recipe so others with chicken issues can have some kind of plan.
Yeah @LDG mine eat them but didn't have the wild reaction I heard about. I thought mine were just weird, well they are weird, but now I know it's the pill and not the cats. Slipper elm, for what it is worth, didn't do anything for my cats. Giving plain psyllium just made for large smelly stools. But both of those still left my cats with hairballs. Hence I mentioned in another thread to AbbyNTim about marshmallow. We use marshmallow in natural haircare to add slip and detangle hair, so it makes sense to use it for hairballs.
Yeah @LDG mine eat them but didn't have the wild reaction I heard about. I thought mine were just weird, well they are weird, but now I know it's the pill and not the cats. Slipper elm, for what it is worth, didn't do anything for my cats. Giving plain psyllium just made for large smelly stools. But both of those still left my cats with hairballs. Hence I mentioned in another thread to AbbyNTim about marshmallow. We use marshmallow in natural haircare to add slip and detangle hair, so it makes sense to use it for hairballs.
I wonder if the addition of marshallow alone would help without the psyllium... My cats had huge bowel movements on the Vet's Best and I really hated seeing that.
Well, we're going to find out. I have marshmallow here, but no psyllium.
Well, we're going to find out. I have marshmallow here, but no psyllium.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #108
Now that I think of it, it makes sense in that we would boil marshmallow root and add it to flax seed gel and such. But I never heard of boiling SEB and adding it to FSG.I wonder if the addition of marshallow alone would help without the psyllium... My cats had huge bowel movements on the Vet's Best and I really hated seeing that.
Well, we're going to find out. I have marshmallow here, but no psyllium.
Keep us updated!
Super precise and high-tech method ... not.Thank you, @AbbyNTim, I may have to try that as both Tuxedo and Sheldon threw up hairballs last night.The slippery elm syrup alone is not going to work.
How do you give this mixture to them?
I mixed all the powders together into a small covered bowl and I measure out doses as needed. To give to the cats, I re-mix the powders to make sure all three are fairly well blended before measuring. Then I mix the measured dose with water and make sure to smooth out any psyllium lumps (I am paranoid of fiber without sufficient water). I add to a small amount of food and the cats gobble it up - this is their bedtime treat.
To measure out each dose, I keep a post-it note on the bowl cover and make a tic mark for each dose. It's easier to measure out two doses at a time. So, for example, I started with 20 doses and kept dividing the powdered mixture in half until I got to two doses (I am eye-balling this, so it's not super precise). I set one dose aside for the next day and mixed the other with water for administration. The tic marks help me keep track of what's left so I know how to divide the powder to get a dose.
I am considering easier ways to deal with the next blend. For example, I may pre-mix the entire thing with water, in an amount that is divisible by 20, so I can measure out a set amount each time. I would keep this in the refrigerator and would test it daily to make sure it hasn't gone bad.
My male cat, Tim, has had the hairball problems. We've taken steps to improve his digestion and his hairballs have greatly decreased. In addition, psyllium, at 1/16 tsp a day, was really clearing the hair, but I didn't want to risk bulking his stools too much so decided to try this. We also just got him off cisapride, so I am somewhat anxiously watching his BMs to make sure he can go on his own and does not get constipated. His stools have gotten smaller on this blend and I'm still seeing a lot of hair in them. I had been giving my female, Abby, psyllium and now this blend on occasion as a preventive. She barfed a big hairball last night, not sure why, so will be giving this to her daily for a while. She's been under some stress due to fireworks and Tim's vet visit yesterday, and we've been experimenting with a variety of canned foods. I am hoping all of this is the reason for her hairball and not something else. In any event, she'll get it daily and I'll keep a close watch over her.
We're still dealing with slightly soft stools with Tim, but I am seeing gradual improvement. I don't think it's this blend; it might be the calming treats I was giving him to help him cope with fireworks and, before that, loud construction next door. I didn't want him to have any reason to avoid the litterbox during this crucial time in his cisapride weaning process. The calming treats include chicken flavor, which may or may not be actual chicken. The holistic vet examined the ingredients yesterday and thought they looked rich and could be the cause of his tummy upset. So we will continue with one dose of my powder blend per day for the time being and stop the calming treats as the loud construction next door is also done.
I need to make another batch and I think I will try to bump the slippery elm and marshmallow just a bit so each is closer to 500mg for the entire batch. My husband brought home a gram scale for this purpose last week. When I made the first batch, I just relied on the stated amounts in each psyllium and marshmallow capsule, and the stated number of milligrams of slippery elm per teaspoon. With the scale, I can get closer to 500mg each and thus come closer to the actual proportions in the remedy. And I may try mixing the entire blend with 20 or 40 tsp of water, so I will simply need to measure a teaspoon or two for a dose. We'll see.
I am flummoxed by hairballs. Obviously cats are going to ingest hair. But what is nature`s intended way of dealing with them? Through a frontal ejection or via the rear portal?
If a cat has a healthy digestive system with proper motility, hair should exit the stomach and not ever form a "ball." Indigestible solids, like hair, are the last thing to empty from the stomach. It is hunger pangs that trigger the powerful paristaltic "wave" that should dump the hair. Cats constantly ingest hair due to grooming, and gastric emptying should occur within two hours at the outside. For some, just moving to grain-free food and timed meals solves the problem.
If a feral cat gets one, they'll eat grass to force it up.
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Marshmallow root... to simmer or not to simmer?
The Nature's Way marshmallow is 480mg. I dumped 1/2 a capsule in Shelly's and Tuxedo's food, let it gel a bit in water and stirred it in. To me, it tastes a little citrus-y, and I'd think there was less of a chance they'd eat that vs SEB, but go figure. They ate it. :dk: Of course it was ground food, which is not the majority of meals.
Since I make the SEB "syrup," I might just add an equivalent amount of marshmallow root (1 teaspoon) to the cup of water (with the 1 teaspoon SEB powder) and see what happens.
The Nature's Way marshmallow is 480mg. I dumped 1/2 a capsule in Shelly's and Tuxedo's food, let it gel a bit in water and stirred it in. To me, it tastes a little citrus-y, and I'd think there was less of a chance they'd eat that vs SEB, but go figure. They ate it. :dk: Of course it was ground food, which is not the majority of meals.
Since I make the SEB "syrup," I might just add an equivalent amount of marshmallow root (1 teaspoon) to the cup of water (with the 1 teaspoon SEB powder) and see what happens.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #114
Dumb question, but are we supposed to boil SEB or anything else that's already powdered and then add it to the food? When I first fed raw, I just opened the capsules of SEB and added more water to the food. That''s what I was told at the FDMB that got me started on the raw journey. Then I went back to the hairball treats since SEB wasn't working.Marshmallow root... to simmer or not to simmer?
The Nature's Way marshmallow is 480mg. I dumped 1/2 a capsule in Shelly's and Tuxedo's food, let it gel a bit in water and stirred it in. To me, it tastes a little citrus-y, and I'd think there was less of a chance they'd eat that vs SEB, but go figure. They ate it.Of course it was ground food, which is not the majority of meals.
Since I make the SEB "syrup," I might just add an equivalent amount of marshmallow root (1 teaspoon) to the cup of water (with the 1 teaspoon SEB powder) and see what happens.
Reminds me, I have several bags of hairball treats leftover...think the shelter will want them? I'd rather give them to the shelter to the Humane Society.
I am going to try a mix with water unboiled. Then I am going to try a mix with water boiled. I'll report back, though it will take several weeks to get through both.
The first batch, I kept in dry powder form and mixed with water as needed. Did not boil. Seemed to work, but was a little challenging to administer due to dividing up an ever-decreasing pile of powder.
I bet the shelter would love the hairball treats!
Oh the SEB can definitely be used without cooking it. When I was first introduced to it by one of our vets, her instructions were the same as Dr. Hofve: mix with water, let it gel, mix into food. I think I used 1/2 teaspoon of SEB and a teaspoon of water, but that would get really thick.
But in that same article by Dr. Hofve on SEB, she includes instructions from Anita Frazier for the "syrup" (I keep putting it in quotes because it isn't all like syrup. :lol3: It's still quite gelatinous).
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/
When I made the syrup, I used one teaspoon of SEB to one cup of water. I nuked it for 30 seconds on high, stirred, repeat. Then I cooked it for 3 minutes on 50% power, stirring 2 or 3 times along the way.
It gels up as it cools, and I store it in the fridge.
I've been giving the four with hairball issues 2 teaspoons of the stuff (mixed with water to thin it out because they don't like the gel) three times a day. I also heavily coat it with freeze dried chicken (or liver) to get them to lap it up. But they're eating it. Well - all but Lazlo. I have to syringe him.
Cooking must release benefits using it cold doesn't, because using it cold resulted in daily hairballs, where using it cooked it took a week before we had a hairball. I mean - of course it could be a coincidence. It does seem with many herbs, they're turned into tea or something before use, so.... :dk:
But as long as the cats are now getting "dessert" (since they won't eat it in the food), I might as well try combining the marshmallow root and the SEB. I just don't know if I should try 1 teaspoon of each in the cup of water, or make it 2 cups....
Well - why don't I go look up how marshmallow root is usually used first?
OK - cold infusion!!! Well - lukewarm water. http://www.learningherbs.com/marshmallow_root.html Apparently you get the benefit without the starch.
I have powder. I'll just try the teaspoon per cup. Maybe 2 teaspoons. :lol3: If it's thin, maybe I can mix that into the SEB syrup instead of water...
I'll just experiment and keep you posted. :lol3:
But in that same article by Dr. Hofve on SEB, she includes instructions from Anita Frazier for the "syrup" (I keep putting it in quotes because it isn't all like syrup. :lol3: It's still quite gelatinous).
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/
When I made the syrup, I used one teaspoon of SEB to one cup of water. I nuked it for 30 seconds on high, stirred, repeat. Then I cooked it for 3 minutes on 50% power, stirring 2 or 3 times along the way.
It gels up as it cools, and I store it in the fridge.
I've been giving the four with hairball issues 2 teaspoons of the stuff (mixed with water to thin it out because they don't like the gel) three times a day. I also heavily coat it with freeze dried chicken (or liver) to get them to lap it up. But they're eating it. Well - all but Lazlo. I have to syringe him.
Cooking must release benefits using it cold doesn't, because using it cold resulted in daily hairballs, where using it cooked it took a week before we had a hairball. I mean - of course it could be a coincidence. It does seem with many herbs, they're turned into tea or something before use, so.... :dk:
But as long as the cats are now getting "dessert" (since they won't eat it in the food), I might as well try combining the marshmallow root and the SEB. I just don't know if I should try 1 teaspoon of each in the cup of water, or make it 2 cups....
Well - why don't I go look up how marshmallow root is usually used first?
OK - cold infusion!!! Well - lukewarm water. http://www.learningherbs.com/marshmallow_root.html Apparently you get the benefit without the starch.
I have powder. I'll just try the teaspoon per cup. Maybe 2 teaspoons. :lol3: If it's thin, maybe I can mix that into the SEB syrup instead of water...
I'll just experiment and keep you posted. :lol3:
Of course.... it worked in the Vet's Best tablet - most likely as just the powdered herb....
I know you can also prepare marshmallow root as a "tea" as noted here for cystitis under the "Herbs" section: http://www.holisticat.com/en/acute-conditions/36-feline-lower-urinary-tract-disease.html. But I don't know if a tea would benefit as a hairball aid in the same way it does for bladder issues.
It seems the cold infusion method is similar to a tea, but with lower temperature water.
For a long time I was giving Caesar straight marshmallow root from the capsule every night, but I may try one of these other methods to see if it makes it work better. Don't know how I would know, though.
I also use the Nature's Way brand because it is organic.
For a long time I was giving Caesar straight marshmallow root from the capsule every night, but I may try one of these other methods to see if it makes it work better. Don't know how I would know, though.
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Okay, I got my bottle of this Vets Best Hairball Relief in today's mail. They are tablets. I have some questions please.
I have one cat. She is shedding huge amounts of hair. I am brushing her and combing her several times a day. But always get large amounts of hair. I have not seen her vomit any hairballs. I don't want to see her do that.
Questions:
How much of this should be given as a preventive hairball remedy.
Because of the pysllium, should it be given in water or in wet food
I have one cat. She is shedding huge amounts of hair. I am brushing her and combing her several times a day. But always get large amounts of hair. I have not seen her vomit any hairballs. I don't want to see her do that.
Questions:
How much of this should be given as a preventive hairball remedy.
Because of the pysllium, should it be given in water or in wet food
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #120
@blueyedgirl5946 I give mine 1/2 tablet each, once per day. I put it on top of their raw. In full-on hairball season, I may have to give 1/2 to 1 tab twice a day, I don't know yet. Monitor the poop to see if hair is coming out.
Mine get extra water in their raw anyway, and I've not seen any issue like constipation since starting these. You can always add a little water to the canned if you feel you need to.
Mine get extra water in their raw anyway, and I've not seen any issue like constipation since starting these. You can always add a little water to the canned if you feel you need to.
