Animal rights is WRONG

[Allmycats]

It always amazes me to see how many people fall prey to the slick photos of puppies and kittens national animal rights groups use to solicit donations. Too often, people who support these organizations are misled into thinking they are actually helping animals or their local humane societies. Despite having a name that suggests an active role in overseeing or operating local humane societies, in reality the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) is little more than a $200-million dollar lobbying organization tirelessly working to ramrod their anti-animal, anti-people agenda into law. On occasions where cases of animal abuse or neglect become the focus of media attention, HSUS often sweeps into town to hog the spotlight while soliciting donations from the unsuspecting public. Like a thief in the night, HSUS packs up and exits - along with the public's donations - as soon as the media's attention fades, leaving struggling, underfunded local animal
shelters and rescue groups bearing the financial burden of care for the confiscated animals.

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[AmberThe Bobcat]

I am glad you posted this. This is something that I have been saying for years, but no one ever believed me or thought I was a fool.

[ut0pia]

I don't think keeping pets should be abolished but I also think that this article is somewhat biased...for example

"Animal advocacy groups are, in a sense, attempting to interfere in the relationship between property (the animals) and the property owner."
--Animals, Property, and the Law by Gary Lawrence Francione (1995), pg 81

I disagree with the whole premise of this statement. I don't think animals are property, they are living things. I don't think keeping animals is the same as animal ownership. We don't own our children but we still "keep them" in a sense- we make sure they are safe, provide for them,and they certainly have rights although they are limited. Animals are the same way IMO.

ETA: Okay so what I said was pretty extreme here..This is how I feel for my pets but farm animals are different... but I think even if you keep farm animals just for slaughter you have responsibilities towards them..such as meeting a standard quality of life they should have, not injecting hormones into them and keeping them in cells where they can't even turn! which does happen btw.

Call me radical if you wish but if I could change the world, I'd do away with large scale farms that keep animals. They are cruel and engage in animal cruelty. It is different than keeping a horse to help you move from point A to point B as it was in the past or milking a cow for most of its life and feeding it,and then when it gets old or sick slaughter it for the meat. This is called animals and humans coexisting ...What we have now is humans exploiting animals.
And hunting with a gun, I definitely don't believe in killing as a sport.

So there are things I agree on with PETA and the humane society..that doesn't mean that I think animals shouldn't be kept as pets or used by humans...
And of course, even though I personally don't agree with hunting that doesn't mean I think it should be banned. To think that is definitely radical...
And it's pretty radical to say that animals shouldn't be kept just for slaughter...So I do see how these groups are radical. But we can at least learn something from them...there is a lot of injustice in how animals are kept that can be fixed and looking at the most radical groups can give a nice contrast so it isn't such a bad idea

[mews2much]

This is exactly why the Mid Pacific TICA group will not let anyone join unless they are a member of TICA.
These people join the groups just to harass the breeders and people that show.

[AmberThe Bobcat]

I don't think animals are property, they are living things. I don't think keeping animals is the same as animal ownership. We don't own our children but we still "keep them" in a sense- we make sure they are safe, provide for them,and they certainly have rights although they are limited. Animals are the same way IMO

My pets ARE my property and here is why. I have explained this many times. In eyes of the law (in the USA) animals as pets must always be considered property. In the USA, we have a "right" to property ownership. If animals are not considered property, the government can easily tell you that you can not own a pet, since it would not be considered a right. That is why the AR wants to change this classification. The AR wants to abolish all pet ownership and what better way to do this, is to get the government to ban your right to do so. Now, does this mean I treat my animals badly because I feel they are my property, heck no. There is nothing that I devote more if my life and time to, is my cats in my care. But I will not stand by and let anyone or any special interest group, take away my right to live with my animals. Support your LOCAL shelters, but do not send your hard earned money to these groups who will do nothing to help animals. Just to refresh your memories. PETA, HSUS, API and most if these big AR groups do NOT run any shelter. And over 90% of all animals PETA takes in they kill. So much for "animal rights". I guess PETA feels these animals have a right to die, instead of the possibility of going to a loving home. If These AR groups cared so much, how come they do not offer any low cost spay/neuter programs? They have huge sums of money to do so, but they would rather waste it paying to get legislation passed.

[bookworm]

Well put UtOpia.

[ut0pia]

Originally Posted by bookworm

Well put UtOpia.

Thanks It's so nice to know that I'm not alone on this like I thought I'd be..

Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat

My pets ARE my property and here is why. I have explained this many times. In eyes of the law (in the USA) animals as pets must always be considered property. In the USA, we have a "right" to property ownership. If animals are not considered property, the government can easily tell you that you can not own a pet, since it would not be considered a right. That is why the AR wants to change this classification. The AR wants to abolish all pet ownership and what better way to do this, is to get the government to ban your right to do so. Now, does this mean I treat my animals badly because I feel they are my property, heck no. There is nothing that I devote more if my life and time to, is my cats in my care. But I will not stand by and let anyone or any special interest group, take away my right to live with my animals. Support your LOCAL shelters, but do not send your hard earned money to these groups who will do nothing to help animals. Just to refresh your memories. PETA, HSUS, API and most if these big AR groups do NOT run any shelter. And over 90% of all animals PETA takes in they kill. So much for "animal rights". I guess PETA feels these animals have a right to die, instead of the possibility of going to a loving home. If These AR groups cared so much, how come they do not offer any low cost spay/neuter programs? They have huge sums of money to do so, but they would rather waste it paying to get legislation passed.

Okay...but if animals are our property than how can we take the necessary measures to protect them from cruel people like they deserve to be protected??? To extend what I said about children, if they were declared our property then imagine what some parents could do to their children. I'm sure some of them will be in cages...how can you ensure that animals are not violated or done wrong by if you don't give them any rights? I just feel like calling animals our property gives too much power to people over their animals...
And I see what you are saying, but nowhere is it written that you have the right to go to college, the right to have a job, etc...Not every single right is enumerated into law. So unless a law is passed AGAINST keeping pets, even if they are not legally property I don't see how they are to be banned.

[bookworm]

Originally Posted by ut0pia

Thanks It's so nice to know that I'm not alone on this like I thought I'd be..

Not at all, the old saying that there is nothing in the middle of the road besides yellow lines and dead armadillos should be amended to include me. Here is what I posted in response to a question by an extreme animal rights group on another forum:

Animals used for food should be bred, kept, raised and slaughtered in humane conditions, while alive their lives should not have any more unpleasantness than any life has.

Animal testing should be reserved for when it is effective, is the only way, and only for products that are essential to life and health. If someone chooses to wear cosmetics or eat junk food, let them take their own chances.

Food and Lab animals should be kept under the best possible conditions.

These animals sacrifice their lives for us, we owe it to them to make those lives as comfortable as is possible.
Maybe for this thread I should add an opinion on pet or companion animals.

Animals kept as pets should be fed at least as high a quality of food as their owners and recieve at least basic vet care. Pet owners should be expected to consider the animals need for exercise or whatever the species requires, and at the very least they should never have to fear their owners.

While I may have the heart of a vegetarian I have the dietary requirements of an omnivore and do eat meat. As little as is left over for human food after feeding my critters I would still be happy to pay extra for cruelty free meat if it were availiable.

[Allmycats]

Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat

My pets ARE my property and here is why. I have explained this many times. In eyes of the law (in the USA) animals as pets must always be considered property. In the USA, we have a "right" to property ownership. If animals are not considered property, the government can easily tell you that you can not own a pet, since it would not be considered a right. That is why the AR wants to change this classification. The AR wants to abolish all pet ownership and what better way to do this, is to get the government to ban your right to do so. Now, does this mean I treat my animals badly because I feel they are my property, heck no. There is nothing that I devote more if my life and time to, is my cats in my care. But I will not stand by and let anyone or any special interest group, take away my right to live with my animals. Support your LOCAL shelters, but do not send your hard earned money to these groups who will do nothing to help animals. Just to refresh your memories. PETA, HSUS, API and most if these big AR groups do NOT run any shelter. And over 90% of all animals PETA takes in they kill. So much for "animal rights". I guess PETA feels these animals have a right to die, instead of the possibility of going to a loving home. If These AR groups cared so much, how come they do not offer any low cost spay/neuter programs? They have huge sums of money to do so, but they would rather waste it paying to get legislation passed.

Thank you AmberBobcat!!!!
Yes...remember their mantra: "Better dead than bred"! Or apparently...also "Better dead than OWNED!" YIKES!
To Utopia's response...no one here is saying that ownership = treat like crap...c'mon...I think you know better. Of course we love and take care of our PETS! We own them out of love and for the protection of their future and that we may continue to enjoy them in our lives. If we are nothing but guardians..then we give the government the power to taketh away!! NO WAY!!!!

[Allmycats]

Originally Posted by ut0pia

Thanks It's so nice to know that I'm not alone on this like I thought I'd be..




Okay...but if animals are our property than how can we take the necessary measures to protect them from cruel people like they deserve to be protected??? To extend what I said about children, if they were declared our property then imagine what some parents could do to their children. I'm sure some of them will be in cages...how can you ensure that animals are not violated or done wrong by if you don't give them any rights? I just feel like calling animals our property gives too much power to people over their animals...
And I see what you are saying, but nowhere is it written that you have the right to go to college, the right to have a job, etc...Not every single right is enumerated into law. So unless a law is passed AGAINST keeping pets, even if they are not legally property I don't see how they are to be banned.

Cats and dogs are NOT children....

[AmberThe Bobcat]

Originally Posted by ut0pia

Okay...but if animals are our property than how can we take the necessary measures to protect them from cruel people like they deserve to be protected??? To extend what I said about children, if they were declared our property then imagine what some parents could do to their children. I'm sure some of them will be in cages...how can you ensure that animals are not violated or done wrong by if you don't give them any rights? I just feel like calling animals our property gives too much power to people over their animals...
And I see what you are saying, but nowhere is it written that you have the right to go to college, the right to have a job, etc...Not every single right is enumerated into law. So unless a law is passed AGAINST keeping pets, even if they are not legally property I don't see how they are to be banned.

The government can enact and enforce laws on how you take care of your property. Just for instance, if you are a home owner, your local goverment does have laws in place that dictate how that property should be taken care of, but since property ownership is a right, they can not tell you you can not own that home. Laws can be written that ensure proper humane treatment of animals, even though they may be considered property. The laws do not say you can not own or keep animals, but if you do, they have to have the proper care. As for laws banning pet ownership, this is already happening. It has started with exotics and is slowly but steadily expanding to domestic animals as well. How do they do this if pets are considered property? They label an animal as vicious or dangerous and there fore, to protect people from some false harm, they ban the animal. Pit bull owners know this and other dogs are falling under the same law. Even some domestic cat breeds are being banned. Bengals and Savannahs for instance, because they have distant "wild or dangerous" blood in them.

Yes...remember their mantra: "Better dead than bred"! Or apparently...also "Better dead than OWNED!" YIKES!
To Utopia's response...no one here is saying that ownership = treat like crap...c'mon...I think you know better. Of course we love and take care of our PETS! We own them out of love and for the protection of their future and that we may continue to enjoy them in our lives. If we are nothing but guardians..then we give the government the power to taketh away!! NO WAY!!!!

So true!!

[Allmycats]

Thank you for your input, ATB! You state it so much more eloquently than I can. I too have often felt misunderstood when speaking out against AR. I want people to stop and think about what is really at stake here. We need to all band together as pet owners, exhibitors, breeders and fight anti-pet/anti-OWNER legislation and propaganda!

I even have a dog show friend...she's an oldtimer no less...but we get into an argument every time b/c I just CAN'T get her to understand what I'm talking about...and if she doesn't get it, the rest of the world worries me! Let's spread the message far and wide...animal rights is up to NO GOOD! Welfare, NOT RIGHTS!!!