i have been reading about declawing cats in some of the other posts I had not heard of this before and I dont think that it is done in Australia not that I have heard of anywhey It seems to be a landlord condition of rent is this correct . any way I dont think that I like it

I don't believe in declawing either. Fortunately where I live (Philippines) it is not done. :happy2:

There are actually a few reasons that people feel the desire to have their cats declawed.

Yes, sometimes landlords will only rent to people who have cats if they are declawed in the front at least. People being such poor caregivers that they are sometimes, cats get neglected and scratch and landlords don't care for the damage they can cause. If the humans actually take care of and train their cats properly, that is not usually the case.

Some people just think that if a cat is indoors only, it does not need claws, especially in multi-cat households as they hope it will reduce any damage the cats might do to each other fighting. Proper introduction of the cat's usually solves that however.

Some are just scared of cats and their claws and they figure if the claws have no claws they will be safer (seems they forget that cats have teeth). It does sometimes make cats easier to manage and care for if you don't have to worry about the scratches, except that most only get the front declawed.. so you still have the back to worry about, kind of silly. Granted, there are some people that a cat scratch could result in serious damage (as they can anyways) such as diabetics as one example, however if you read your cat's signs and body language and your careful with them, you should not get scratched.

Some places in the world have banned cat declawing and won't allow it, personally although I think that those laws were passed for the "right" reasons (their desire to help cats), I feel it is taking away yet one more freedom we as pet owners have. I believe in the right to choose for our own bodies and our own pets, so although I semi-agree that cat's usually should not be de-clawed.. I don't agree 100% that we should not at least have that option and choice to make ourselves.

After talking to my vet about how it is done, I was informed the cat gets "patched" to drug them up a full day before the surgery. Of course they get drugs during, and then after as well. They are also watched for a couple days after to make sure they can use the litterbox and walk.

cats which are declawed often have behavioural problems as they fell they have to compensate for not being able to defend themselves so may become aggressive as a result. they can also get arthritis from thier toes being amputated.

i for one am glad that de-clawing is illegal in the uk. with so many alternatives such as clipping, training and soft paws i dont think you need to de-claw. i'm not a big fan of chopping off parts of animals unless it is really neccisary eg. a life saving amputation or sp/neutering.

saying that, thats just my opinion. as much as i disagree with de-clawing i would rather a cat was de-clawed than forced out onto the street because its owner was unable to keep it. and i'd be interested to hear cases where de-clawing was nessicary.

i *think* it's illegal in australia too.

Pretty good discussion here:

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41850

Spotz

Hi & welcome to TCS!!!!:wavey:

I agree, declawing just seems wrong!!! I trim Monte's nails weekly and give him lots of scratching posts around the house and I have never had a problem!

Declawing is outright banned in 27 countries, and the US is not one of them. IMO most people do it for one of three reasons:

1. They are misinformed about what it entails.
2. Their vets talk them into it as a "routine surgery" because the vets want to make more money.
3. They care more about their furniture and belongings than a life.

(That's a generalized statement. Of course there will be cases of medical necessity and a few more for other valid reasons...)

Thankfully, with more and more people getting online and doing their own research, more people are getting educated about what the surgery really involves and alternatives, including training a cat to scratch in appropriate ways. It won't get banned in the US for decades, if ever because the vets won't allow it and because pets are viewed as personal property that you can do whatever you want to (within reason, of course).

I'll move this to Care & Grooming. :)

Just a reminder for everyone... This is a very hot topic. Please keep your remarks as mature and educated as the ones already posted here. If we can have a civilized conversation about this, the thread will stay open. Otherwise...well...we have to abide by the rules. :)

thanks to all the replieys interesting that 27 countries have made it illegal. We just had to pay a pet bond for this house and I watch my cats dont scratch the leather lounge and dont leave them in the lounge room if I am in not home.

Do you have a scratching post for your cats? :)

declawing is a procedure that removes the nails. Pretty basic, can cause pain just as any surgery. It has it's enemies, but it's up to the owners. Most people who keep thier cats indoors all the time opt to declaw thier cats, mostly only the front claws. I suggest to ANYONE thinking about declawing thier cats I recommend to learn as much as you can about it BEFORE your cat goes in for it. Ask your vet any and all questions you may have. It is better to get it does when you get the cats spayed or neutered, or when they are kittens. This is because if you wait until they are adults the weight of the cat may cause complications and aditional pain. If the cat's scratching begins to be a problem people start to look into it too.

The only time I would say that it's something that could be done is when immuno-compromised people adopt cats. (ie. People with cancer, AIDS, and other disease, and people with transplants.) It really is the only way for them to safely keep cats and not have to be overtly worried about becoming ill from them from accidents. I'd rather see a cat get a good home, and see these people get a wonderful companion than the cat get put to sleep due to overcrowding in shelters.

But the others are right. People declaw because it's the easiest thing for them to do. With a little work, there's no need to do it. But this is the US of A, and I'm afraid to admit that as a nation we're rather lazy.

declawing is a procedure that removes the nails. Pretty basic, can cause pain just as any surgery. It has it's enemies, but it's up to the owners. Most people who keep thier cats indoors all the time opt to declaw thier cats, mostly only the front claws. I suggest to ANYONE thinking about declawing thier cats I recommend to learn as much as you can about it BEFORE your cat goes in for it. Ask your vet any and all questions you may have. It is better to get it does when you get the cats spayed or neutered, or when they are kittens. This is because if you wait until they are adults the weight of the cat may cause complications and aditional pain. If the cat's scratching begins to be a problem people start to look into it too. Even though I'm a strong supporter of the procedure, I rarely would reccomend it as anything but a last resort solution. There are indeed plenty of veterinarians who will push the procedure simply because it generates income rather than because it is absolutely necessary, but there are also those that keep an open mind. [I reccomend the latter ;)]

Also, many people that either have declawed cats, or that consider declawing as a 'standard' practice, don't know that there are other options available. Most of these alternatives are extremely successful, and pose less risk to the animal. Slowly but steadily, more and more veterinarians are at the very least, starting to discuss the surgery in a more open fashion.

The only caution that I would offer to anyone looking into this procedure, is that there is a large amount of misinformation around regarding declawing. There are numerous organizations and websites that take some of the worst case scenarios, namely making an example of the complications of an incorrect procedure and portraying such an uncommon occurrances as if they were routine occurrances. As with anything concerning your animals health, the best resource on this topic is a veterinarian, ideally who is very familiar with the procedure and is patient enough to discuss the procedure with you.

I would venture to say that a large amount of cats who are declawed, were declawed by owners that simply didn't understand that they have a choice. Yet at the same time, the vast majority of cats that are declawed live long, healthy, happy lives. For the most part, cats are declawed, not because they have to be, but because they can be.

Declawing is a practice that is very misunderstood, I wouldn't classify it as either "Right" or "Wrong". It's merely one of many choices available to a cat owner, a choice to be heavily considered, but nonetheless still a choice.

Spotz

yes the cats have a couple of scratching posts i had to spray the posts with some catnip to get them interested but they use them now. We call one post the castle because it has diffarent levels and a couple of hidding boxs attached to it as well. When mistey thinks that I not looking she still prefers to try and scratch the lounge I think that shes turned this in to a game, one that I hope she doesnt teach smokey.

...
But the others are right. People declaw because it's the easiest thing for them to do. With a little work, there's no need to do it. But this is the US of A, and I'm afraid to admit that as a nation we're rather lazy.
Don't forget chronically misinformed ;)

Spotz

I'm glad I live in a country- Australia where it is illegal apart for medical reason for the cat- so cats have claws- they scratch- you deal with it by behavioural means, trim their claws, live with it- or don't have a cat.
Its a matter of community attitude- I live in a country where such a procedure would be regarded as animal cruelty- so if it suddenly became legal- doubt many people would ask for it or that any vets would do it.
I was shocked when I first started visiting US cat sites and heard of the procedure.
I have a number of different scratching surfaces for my cats- never had a problem with furniture over many years of cat ownership

It is not actually just the nails that are removed, but the top joint of the toes - like us having our fingers amputated to the first joint. So it is a fairly major procedure. Having said that, I have US friends who have always declawed, and their cats have led long and healthy and happy lives. I just think it should not be done lightly, and personally I am glad the UK has banned it, not that I would ever consider it for my cats unless there was a pressing medical reason. As well as scratching posts, I put out mats and with a bit of training, there is rarely a problem.

Even though I'm a strong supporter of the procedure, I rarely would reccomend it as anything but a last resort solution. There are indeed plenty of veterinarians who will push the procedure simply because it generates income rather than because it is absolutely necessary, but there are also those that keep an open mind. [I reccomend the latter ;)]

Also, many people that either have declawed cats, or that consider declawing as a 'standard' practice, don't know that there are other options available. Most of these alternatives are extremely successful, and pose less risk to the animal. Slowly but steadily, more and more veterinarians are at the very least, starting to discuss the surgery in a more open fashion.

The only caution that I would offer to anyone looking into this procedure, is that there is a large amount of misinformation around regarding declawing. There are numerous organizations and websites that take some of the worst case scenarios, namely making an example of the complications of an incorrect procedure and portraying such an uncommon occurrances as if they were routine occurrances. As with anything concerning your animals health, the best resource on this topic is a veterinarian, ideally who is very familiar with the procedure and is patient enough to discuss the procedure with you.

I would venture to say that a large amount of cats who are declawed, were declawed by owners that simply didn't understand that they have a choice. Yet at the same time, the vast majority of cats that are declawed live long, healthy, happy lives. For the most part, cats are declawed, not because they have to be, but because they can be.

Declawing is a practice that is very misunderstood, I wouldn't classify it as either "Right" or "Wrong". It's merely one of many choices available to a cat owner, a choice to be heavily considered, but nonetheless still a choice.

Spotz

I'm going to disagree with you many of the point you have made. No vet would push any procedure on anyone. and anyone who would blindly do anything vet says without research is, in my mind, stupid. You wouldn't let yourself go under the knife without knowing any and all risks and benifits of the procedure, why would you dothat to your pets!! Just b/c people get thier cats declawed does not mean they are irresponcible pet owners. They get it done b/c they feel it is nesscary NOT because they are "saving" the couch. If a cat is indoors all the time, I don't see why the owners should not be aloud to consider it. I didn't get Limerick declawed b/c it was an added expense and his scratching is not a problem.
The bottom line is the choice of to delcaw or not to delcaw should be left to the owner. Each cat is different and each situation is different. Find a vet you can trust, do your homework, know what is going to happen, then make your dission.

I'm going to disagree with you many of the point you have made. No vet would push any procedure on anyone. and anyone who would blindly do anything vet says without research is, in my mind, stupid.

I don't know about that. I know that when I was making an appointment to get Baylee spayed, they assumed I would want her declawed as well. And honestly I think a lot of people will take what their doctors say seriously, same as with vets... thinking, oh well he went to school for this, he should know better. If the vet says, we have to pull his tooth out, would you not believe him?

I dont personally agree with declawing. And no one will ever convince me too. But i respect peoples wishes as well. I have MANY scracthing posts..but mine still think its fun to get the furniture...my couch ends look horrible..and my brand new comp chair has its damage already. I just shrug and say Oh well. I would rather have nice, Happy natural kitties than good furniture anyways.

I don't know about that. I know that when I was making an appointment to get Baylee spayed, they assumed I would want her declawed as well. And honestly I think a lot of people will take what their doctors say seriously, same as with vets... thinking, oh well he went to school for this, he should know better. If the vet says, we have to pull his tooth out, would you not believe him?
Exactly! Look, when I took Trent in for his neuter surgery - to physically hand him over to the vets to be neutered - they asked if we wanted him declawed too. Like it was just part of the routine. Actually with about the same tone as "Do you want fries with that?" I asked what all it entailed, and they lied to me about that. (It is more than just removing the nails and nail bed...) I believed them. If it's that routine, then they should know what it is right? Trent is declawed and no, I didn't know what it really was until after it was done. I guess I'm stupid then, right? :rolleyes: That's balderdash. I trusted a professional to tell me the truth. They wanted my money, they got it. I've heard much the same from so many people on this site, I do not believe that "No vet would push any procedure on anyone."

Obviously, I have since changed vets to someone who is straightforward about declawing and discourages it as much as possible because it isn't necessary except under very few circumstances. And he refuses to do it, unless medically necessary to the cat, to any cat over 1 year old because of the pain management issues and recovery time that older cats require.

people the vet can not read minds, you have to tell them what you do and do not what done to your cat. I have never met a vet that would just go and do anything with out talking with the owner(s) first.

A vet I am longer associated with, one of his girls one time while I was in the office waiting for an appointment was on the phone. A lady had called to get her cat neutered. I heard the office worker say rather matter-of-factly- "OK, I have Randolph scheduled to come in on the third for a neuter, will there be a declawing for him at the same time?" I was appalled and after she hung up I went up and told her she may as well throw all my cats' charts away because I was done with this clinic. I walked out and never looked back.

It is an unneccessary and painful procedure to put a cat through. It is done because some humans do not know how to deal with normal cat behavior, or to save furniture, or to stay in an apartment because of a landlord's rule. Very rarely is it done for medical reasons. Just because cats are stoic and don't show pain easily people get to say that declawing is no big deal. I have a friend who only rescues declawed cats. I am here to tell you, it is a very big deal, and yes, it can cause problems over time if not done correctly in the first place.

people the vet can not read minds, you have to tell them what you do and do not what done to your cat. I have never met a vet that would just go and do anything with out talking with the owner(s) first.
No, of course they don't do it without consent, but how they go about getting that consent is a different matter entirely. As both Mary Anne and I have pointed out, how they and their staff present declawing, how they answer questions about it, if they flat out LIE about what it entails does play a part. Don't be naive and think that there aren't any vets out there who do unnecessary procedures to boost their bottom line.

No, of course they don't do it without consent, but how they go about getting that consent is a different matter entirely. As both Mary Anne and I have pointed out, how they and their staff present declawing, how they answer questions about it, if they flat out LIE about what it entails does play a part. Don't be naive and think that there aren't any vets out there who do unnecessary procedures to boost their bottom line.

Hey all I can tell you is MY EXPERIENCE!!!! Don't bitch at me or balme me for your mistakes. It is up to the owner to understand what is or isn't going to happen to thier pet. Not my fault people!!

Hey all I can tell you is MY EXPERIENCE!!!! Don't bitch at me or balme me for your mistakes. It is up to the owner to understand what is or isn't going to happen to thier pet. Not my fault people!!
And I'm just sharing my experience as well, not blaming you. Of course, there are wonderful vets who will discuss any and all procedures openly and honestly. But there are also those who push procedures and tests to get more money out of you. Like Ari said, most people trust the people who have been trained in a specialty. That's why I hire doctors, mechanics and veterinarians...because I don't have the time or qualifications to learn or know everything that they do.

If you have time to post on this forum you have time to do alittle research.

Exactly! Look, when I took Trent in for his neuter surgery - to physically hand him over to the vets to be neutered - they asked if we wanted him declawed too. Like it was just part of the routine. Actually with about the same tone as "Do you want fries with that?" I asked what all it entailed, and they lied to me about that. (It is more than just removing the nails and nail bed...) I believed them. If it's that routine, then they should know what it is right? Trent is declawed and no, I didn't know what it really was until after it was done. I guess I'm stupid then, right? :rolleyes: That's balderdash. I trusted a professional to tell me the truth.

That is exactly my story Heidi, and the reason why Baylee is declawed. I'm grateful that the vet that performed the declaw did it properly so that I haven't had the least bit of trouble with her (other than her tendency to fall over the railing)... but only after I learned more about the procedure did I realize how horrible it is.

If you have time to post on this forum you have time to do alittle research
Yes, that's true. But not everyone knows about this forum or to do the research. That's all we're saying... that so many people take people in the medical profession at their word without realizing that they DON'T know everything, or to do the research.

There are many people who aren't going to take the time to research a procedure..they believe "Vet knows best" and if the vet recommends declawing..then it must be ok. Our rescue group stopped working with a vet because he recommended declawing and we have a strict "NO DECLAW" policy. People who are on the fence or want to declaw a cat can certainly adopt one that has already had the procedure. Declawed homeless cats need homes too.

Katie

True but finding a declawed cat in the shelter is very hard

True but finding a declawed cat in the shelter is very hard

Not true at all...we get declawed cats EVERY WEEK from the shelter. Petfinder even has a way that you can do a search for cats who are declawed.

http://www.petfinder.com/search.html

You simply select "Cat"..and list your location..towards the bottom there is a check box for Only Declawed Pets. I just did it for my area and it brought up the closest 450 cats. As far as I am concerned..with so many declawed cats available..there really isn't a good reason to need to get a clawed cat and have the procedure performed.

Katie

True but finding a declawed cat in the shelter is very hard

I agree with Katie... definitely not hard. Max is a 6 year old cat that we adopted a month or 2 ago and he came declawed. He was at Petsmart, through an adoption agency. And while I was there I walked past 3 other cats who had already been declawed.

Not in the shelters I've visited.

A vet I am longer associated with, one of his girls one time while I was in the office waiting for an appointment was on the phone. A lady had called to get her cat neutered. I heard the office worker say rather matter-of-factly- "OK, I have Randolph scheduled to come in on the third for a neuter, will there be a declawing for him at the same time?" I was appalled and after she hung up I went up and told her she may as well throw all my cats' charts away because I was done with this clinic. I walked out and never looked back.

It is an unneccessary and painful procedure to put a cat through. It is done because some humans do not know how to deal with normal cat behavior, or to save furniture, or to stay in an apartment because of a landlord's rule. Very rarely is it done for medical reasons. Just because cats are stoic and don't show pain easily people get to say that declawing is no big deal. I have a friend who only rescues declawed cats. I am here to tell you, it is a very big deal, and yes, it can cause problems over time if not done correctly in the first place.
Hissy, I totally agree with you. If on a rare occasion to relieve a poor kitty from pain, then yes. However in my opinion there is no other valid reason to ever declaw. My living room chair has battle scars from when Nikki & Daisy used it before I got them a couple of scratching posts. They took to them right away. I'm against declawing.

I'm going to disagree with you many of the point you have made. No vet would push any procedure on anyone. and anyone who would blindly do anything vet says without research is, in my mind, stupid. You wouldn't let yourself go under the knife without knowing any and all risks and benifits of the procedure, why would you dothat to your pets!!
Not every pet owner is so inquisitive, most take an animal to a vet and listen to their advice. It is very easy for an owner to be misled [intentionally or not] by a veterinarian without knowing any different. Same can be said about going to any doctor. People generally goto a doctor because they have a problem that they hope the doctor can solve. When a solution is offered, they generally don't resist.

There are indeed plenty of dishonest veterinarians out there, not the majority, but enough to give the good ones a bad name.

Spaying/Neutering, Declawing and Vaccinations are fairly common procedures in the USA, when a veterinarian reccomends any of these optional procedures, people rarely question it at all. When the vet says that if they neuter their male cat before he reaches sexual maturity that he won't spray foul smelling urine on everything in their house, people generally get the cat neutered. When the vet says after we declaw your cat, he won't tear your house to shreads, people generally get their cat declawed. It gets better, when the vet says, if you have both procedures done at the same time, it'll cost you less, people generally have both procedures done at the same time. The most frequently asked question, is about post-op care for the animal, not if the procedure is really necessary.

The majority of people in the United States who have their cats declawed, don't know that it isn't necessary.

The necessity for S/N and Vaccinations is well documented. Declawing, well, it's only documented to be medically feesible. What I'm trying to say here, Declawing can be done safely and with minimal negative effect to a cats health, but declawing doesn't often directly benefit the cats health either, thus there is no necessity for declawing.

Declawing is merely an option, a preference per se, it will not hurt the cat but it won't exactly help the cat either. There are still a lot of vets that will push the procedure, without ever discussing alternate options with the owner. Plus, there are still a huge amount of owners that have only ever known declawing to be part of owning a cat, they simply do not know any different.

I know different, I have seen both, I have worked with both. I have had great success with alternative methods of controlling undesirable scratching problems, but I'm also not ashamed to admit that I would have a cat declawed if it provided a mutual benefit. I know a vet that does the procedure correctly, and I know that the procedure when done correctly is extremely humane. I have seen bad declaws, I know the procedure can be severely botched. I also know that for the most part, a scratching post and a good pair of nail clippers, have always worked EXTREMELY well for most of my cats.

Just b/c people get thier cats declawed does not mean they are irresponcible pet owners. They get it done b/c they feel it is nesscary NOT because they are "saving" the couch. If a cat is indoors all the time, I don't see why the owners should not be aloud to consider it.I didn't get Limerick declawed b/c it was an added expense and his scratching is not a problem.
The bottom line is the choice of to delcaw or not to delcaw should be left to the owner. Each cat is different and each situation is different. Find a vet you can trust, do your homework, know what is going to happen, then make your dission.
Right on the Money there!

From my experiences with having cats declawed, to actually assisting in declawing cats, and even based on my experience with some of the alternatives to declawing, my official stance on declawing is that it is an Option, and should remain an Option. I would love to see more veterinarians explain it as an option, and then allow the owner to make their own choice on the matter. I would also love to see declawing become nothing more than an option, rather than a 'family tradition'.

There is a lot of misinformation on declawing around, until owners understand what declawing really is, until they are properly informed, they simply will not know that they have a choice when it comes to declawing.

Knowledge is the key, give owners the information they need to make an educated choice, and let them make the choice.

Spotz

...
Obviously, I have since changed vets to someone who is straightforward about declawing and discourages it as much as possible because it isn't necessary except under very few circumstances. And he refuses to do it, unless medically necessary to the cat, to any cat over 1 year old because of the pain management issues and recovery time that older cats require.
Smart choice :)...mine also draws the line around 1 year, but strongly reccomends it be done early or not at all [barring medical necessity of course]. He is more than happy to sit down and talk about it, and honestly could care less which way you prefer. His priority is making sure that the procedure is done correctly if you choose to have a cat declawed. His priority is the health and well being of the animal, not how thick his wallet is at the end of the day.

Spotz

If you have time to post on this forum you have time to do alittle research.
Perhaps you should do a little research:

www.declawing.com

As you will see, doing just a "little" research provides anyone with sufficient information to reach a point of absolute disgust of declawing. It takes a LOT of research to learn enough about declawing to get enough information to form an educated opinion. Few people have the time to do a LOT of research.

Spotz
PS If you have time to post on this forum, you have time to show a little bit of respect.

Spotz...thanks for the link! I didn't realize that I was trimming my cats nails the wrong way and causing them to split:

Many people hold the clippers at right angles to the nail, thus cutting across the nail. This tends to make the nail more subject to splitting or fraying. It is better to hold the clippers in a vertical position--that is, up and down, so that the claw is trimmed from bottom to top instead of across the nail. This position help prevent splitting.

Katie

Spotz...thanks for the link! I didn't realize that I was trimming my cats nails the wrong way and causing them to split:

Many people hold the clippers at right angles to the nail, thus cutting across the nail. This tends to make the nail more subject to splitting or fraying. It is better to hold the clippers in a vertical position--that is, up and down, so that the claw is trimmed from bottom to top instead of across the nail. This position help prevent splitting.

Katie

I'm not sure I understand how we're supposed to clip them then... what's the difference between clipping the claw from bottom to top than across the nail? They kinda sound the same to me!

Spotz...thanks for the link! I didn't realize that I was trimming my cats nails the wrong way and causing them to split:

Many people hold the clippers at right angles to the nail, thus cutting across the nail. This tends to make the nail more subject to splitting or fraying. It is better to hold the clippers in a vertical position--that is, up and down, so that the claw is trimmed from bottom to top instead of across the nail. This position help prevent splitting.

Katie


I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about. Do you mean trimming the nail at an angle rather then vertical???

That quote came from this page:

http://www.declawing.com/htmls/trimming.htm

I admit that I probably trim them at an angle and the recommendation is to not do this.

Katie

Spotz...thanks for the link! I didn't realize that I was trimming my cats nails the wrong way and causing them to split:

Many people hold the clippers at right angles to the nail, thus cutting across the nail. This tends to make the nail more subject to splitting or fraying. It is better to hold the clippers in a vertical position--that is, up and down, so that the claw is trimmed from bottom to top instead of across the nail. This position help prevent splitting.

Katie
You're Welcome...

Indeed that site has a lot of great information on the alternatives to declawing, but the information it has on the procedure itself is very heavily biased.

I would caution anyone looking for info on the site to form their own opinion based on facts; the information used against declawing on the site, is heavily debatable in regards to behavior, while most of the pictures of bad side effects are captioned as being caused by an improper procedure. The author fails to mention that these examples are rarities, and that when done properly it is just as rare for there to be a negative effect from declawing.

Spotz

As for vets who push the procedure on people...
I have a friend whose vet tells every new cat owner who walks in his door that if they get a cat's front-paws declawed, HE'LL THROW IN THE BACK CLAWS FOR FREE!!!! :onfire: What a way to make a sale - it's a two for one deal! My friends mom went with it because she said they'd save money in the long run if the cat started to scratch the furniture later. What an idiot. (My vet and all of his girls have NEVER once asked me if I wanted them declawed. If someone asks about it, he'll sit them down and try to help them without having to do surgery.)

We get in at least 7 declawed cats a week at my shelter. People don't want their cat anymore and drop them off to be put to sleep. We always keep the declawed ones (as long as they are healthy and pass the temperment testing) because they go fast. I can't tell you how many 4-paw declaws I've seen dropped off. (Thank you, you stupid local vet.)

Heck, we had two cats in our shelter for eight months, and didn't discover they were declawed until they were adopted. (Lack of communication, that was.) So the declawed cats are there, though no one might have noticed it, though.

The only thing I have to say to people who really insist on getting their cat declawed is to go to a very good vet who knows what they are doing and have very satisfied customers and cats that haven't had any complications. Our last cat was butchered by a reduced-cost animal charity. They sent her home with the actual claws wrapped up in the bandaging tape, no lie! It's not something that I like to see done to a cat, but it's still the owner's choice, and I want to see those owners make an informed choice.

I agree. The only thing I have to say about declawing is I would rather see someone give a cat a great safe home and if they decided to declaw the cat in the front and keep them indoors at all times... okay, I can accept that. I would rather see that than the cat out on the street with no home and not neutered.

I remember the last thread on declawing - I think it was to do with landlords making it a condition of letting - and I can recall getting really steamed up about it. How dare they?? etc. etc.
In the cool light of day, I realised that although I live in a country where declawing is illegal, many landlords in this country refuse to allow pets at all when letting their property. I began to wonder whether it's more enlightened to allow no pets, or only to allow mutilated pets? I can't make up my mind on that one.
My personal choice would be for a cat au naturel, I am against cutting off toes to preserve my furniture, but if it came down to having cats and being homeless, or having a home but no cats, well, I'd be stumped there.

Sue

Until recently I didn't know there was such a thing as declawing, as it's illegal in Ireland. My instinct is against it, because I feel that if you love cats you should love them for what they are and what nature intended them to be. I don't really see how anyone could believe that it's a "necessity", as some people have said their vets claim. Surely claws are a necessity for a cat.

Until recently I didn't know there was such a thing as declawing, as it's illegal in Ireland. My instinct is against it, because I feel that if you love cats you should love them for what they are and what nature intended them to be. I don't really see how anyone could believe that it's a "necessity", as some people have said their vets claim. Surely claws are a necessity for a cat.

But thats part of the point. They are NOT a "necessity for a cat". Thus they can be safely removed and the cat is no worse off (if done properly of course).

We still have not had Buddy declawed, of course cost is a HUGE factor but partially because of reading threads here, learning to cope with his claws, trimming them and becoming informed on what is involved and alteratives. We did have KC declawed many many years ago, but of course we have learned a lot more since then.

Another reason not to get Buddy declawed.. KC needs a teeth cleaning.. thats as much money or more then a front declaw and even that is on hold at the moment, so there is no way I could even begin to consider having Buddy done -- IF I even would. Granted.. our landlord DOES think our cat's are declawed.. *duck*. Shhhh! :)

I agree. The only thing I have to say about declawing is I would rather see someone give a cat a great safe home and if they decided to declaw the cat in the front and keep them indoors at all times... okay, I can accept that. I would rather see that than the cat out on the street with no home and not neutered.
I completely agree. Whether or not we think its stupid, many places that we rent here in the states will not allow a cat with claws in the building. Its wrong, injust, inhumane, whatever...it just is. How am I supposed to deal with that? I cant afford to buy a house right now, but I am quite capable of giving a cat a loving home. Fortunately, I have never had to make the call on declawing a cat-growing up all of the household cats were declawed, and when we adopted Adelaide she had been declawed by her previous owners (and then abandoned outside to make do on her own :onfire: ). Berylayn lives in the same complex as I do and had to beg, plead, and grovel for her Ebony. Not everyone will be as lucky as Beryl, but even if she had had to get her declawed, I still think that Eb would be better off in the wonderful home she has made for her than in the shelter where her chances of finding a home would get smaller and smaller as she got older.
Why is it better to euthanize than to declaw? The cats I had growing up both lived quite long and happy lives (16 & 18) and Addie has never shown any signs of having issue with her paws at all. Thankfully in all those cases a vet did a good job at the right time in their lives and they made full recoveries. I would never ever have a cat declawed to save my furnature, or even my skin, but I think that with the right amount of research into the subject and vets in your area, it can be done safely.

I am against clawing by default but circumstances might arise where it has to grudgingly be done. The clinic offered declawing at a reduced price and I had a wad of cash ready to pay her bills but I declined anyway. So that is obviously my personal preference.

I am committed to Nano but during her life expectancy I'll probably start a family and live in a couple of different parts of the country or even a different country. I don't know what the future may bring. If I live in the rural country, maybe I will convert her to being an outdoor cat. If I live in a rent controlled New York City apartment, I might need to get her declawed. I'm a committed pet owner who will always make the best decision for Nano, but I can't make sweeping statements without risking being a hypocrite. I just have to adjust as circumstances evolve.

And me being her owner is in Nano's best interest because I am her last chance. About 750 cats and dogs are euthanised each month in my town. How many cats do they keep up for adoption? A dozen cute kittens or committed lapcats. And the adoption rate is so slow that some of these highly likeable cats might go months before being adopted.

She is even unadoptable through the local private rescue groups. They bravely take on the senior cats, the three legged cats, the younger "special needs" cats...but still. I looked through their entire portfolio and couldn't find a single animal with even 25% of the baggage Nano carries.

So yeah, it'd take a whole lot more than just damaged furniture or minor inconvenience...but I am not gonna say "never" just because I can't make that promise. I can only say that I will do everything I can to keep Nano with me, and as long as she is with me she stays alive.

And let's keep it straight -- declawing is not a good idea, but save the real contempt for people who let animals breed out of control. I wonder how many of the nearly five million cats and dogs euthanized each year in the United States ever saw a vet in their lifetime? So let's not beat up non-experts who witlessly accept a vet's suggestion...at least they were taking their pet to a vet. Better than most pet owners out there, right?

If anyone is interested, the last time I was in Petsmart here was their display case:

ten cats -- all altered and current on shots, all with negative status

Of those, the two oldest were a 2.5 year old tabby and another estimated at a year and a half. Three were declawed -- one front paws only. Four were labeled "special needs" which included the three declawed cats and the infamous three legged cat. (One of the declawed cats was also deaf.) Two of the declawed cats were also labeled as a pair that needed to be adopted together.

But anyway, declawed cats are available for adoption through the private rescue groups.

And I always wonder in the back of my mind. If these cats were declawed to stop a behavior problem, why are they in the shelter in the first place? Declawed cats can have behavior issues. Not all of them, but certainly some of them.

we [US of A] are lazy, & i think declawing should be BANNED!!! :fireblob: banned all across the world!!! :soap: it makes me sick!!! :barf:

And I always wonder in the back of my mind. If these cats were declawed to stop a behavior problem, why are they in the shelter in the first place? Declawed cats can have behavior issues. Not all of them, but certainly some of them.

Hey Hissy...I know that when we get declawed cats...oftentimes they are turned in for the same reason we get clawed cats...allergies, moving, doesn't get along with new or existing pets, too many pets etc. We DO get declawed cats with "litterbox issues"...but have found that 9 times out of 10...in their new home, they show no issues. Not sure if that is the case in other rescues/shelters.

Katie

If anyone is interested, the last time I was in Petsmart here was their display case:

ten cats -- all altered and current on shots, all with negative status

Of those, the two oldest were a 2.5 year old tabby and another estimated at a year and a half. Three were declawed -- one front paws only. Four were labeled "special needs" which included the three declawed cats and the infamous three legged cat. (One of the declawed cats was also deaf.) Two of the declawed cats were also labeled as a pair that needed to be adopted together.

But anyway, declawed cats are available for adoption through the private rescue groups.

Sorry, just to clarify since this is an international message board -- the pet store invites the local private rescue groups to showcase the various animals available for adoption. So at any given time there are cats from 2-3 different rescue groups on display. The groups rotate them periodically trying to get exposure so cats will be adopted. So the cats on display are a sample of the cats the groups are fostering until they find a new home.

Don't know if that makes it any clearer or not! :lol3:

Katie, we normally don't get declawed cats for behavioral reasons, either. If there's one thing we learned, it doesn't matter if the cat is fixed or declawed, the owner will still dump it, and apart from kitten season, most dumps are a year old. (Can't imagine someone spending 400 or 500 dollars on a declaw and spay, just to dump it at a shelter to be euthanized a few months later.)

We have been seeing a lot of older (3 years and older) declaws dumped due to elderly owners passing away. Two cat who were about 9 year old were dumped after their owner passed away, and the family realized that they weren't doing so well after 6 months outside. *insert strong language here* :onfire: :onfire: :onfire:

Our cat has her claws.

If you arn't renting it is a matter of whether you like your cat or furnature more.

We just have one piece of furnature she goes after but she leaves the rest of the furnature alowne.

_________________
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MagicZ4941

Our cat has her claws.

If you arn't renting it is a matter of whether you like your cat or furnature more.

It's more then just that. It's about is the cat's going to be indoors or outdoors. and it's the owner's choice. If the cat suddenly goes after everything in the house with the claws, then you might want to look into it. if not then don't whatever it's your choice. If I get a $10,000 living room set, I want it to last. If kitty desides to use the living room set as a scratching post, rather then the scratching post you got them, then yeah get them declawed or whatever. Part of it comes from the whole home value thing. If you plan to move you want your home to be sell able. You don't want to be investing thousands of dollars relpacing the carpets, floorboards, whatever. Use your head people and do what you feel is needed.

It's more then just that. It's about is the cat's going to be indoors or outdoors. and it's the owner's choice. If the cat suddenly goes after everything in the house with the claws, then you might want to look into it. if not then don't whatever it's your choice. If I get a $10,000 living room set, I want it to last. If kitty desides to use the living room set as a scratching post, rather then the scratching post you got them, then yeah get them declawed or whatever. Part of it comes from the whole home value thing. If you plan to move you want your home to be sell able. You don't want to be investing thousands of dollars relpacing the carpets, floorboards, whatever. Use your head people and do what you feel is needed.And in the scenario you just presented...you made your choice. You choose the furniture. Fine, it is still legal in the US to declaw whenever the owner finds it more convenient.

But it is also the owner's choice NOT to get their cat declawed under any circumstance.
Me personally - I value my pets' lives and quality of life as I view it above the resale value or damage deposit. They are indoor only, and I still won't ever do a declaw again. It doesn't matter whether or not they are indoor or outdoor to ME.

This is a sadistic practice this is not generally done in Britain. Personally, if my furniture gets ripped to shreds (it's usually at the back where no one can see anyway) it just comes with having cats. I'm now down to 2 cats (from 11) - British shorthairs: the others having died of old age. They are very good and only strop their claws on a carpet (an old one!). Declawing is inhumane and leaves the cat without defence if it gets attacked by another one. I dont know why people have cats if they're going to disfigure them. But that's just my opinion. I suppose it's different if a cat's going to be imprisoned in a flat all of its life and never let out. (We have a cat proof garden they can go in if they want to when we are around). How would people like their nails ripped off? Same thing. :onfire:

This is a sadistic practice...How would people like their nails ripped off? Same thing. :onfire: Such gross distortions of reality do get tiresome after a while, especially when it's always the same basic distortion. Worse yet when the distortion is basically a lie.[No..I am not calling anyone an intentional liar, merely stating fact]

Sadism...hmmm...a quick check of the dictionary reveals the blatant error with the usage of the term in such a capacity. Declawing is not done to provide sexual gratification, from causing physical or emotional pain/abuse on a cat. Nor is is done to simply derive pleasure from cruelty. Declawing definately does not fit the definition of "Extreme Cruelty".
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sadism
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sadistic

As I [and others] have covered in the past, human anatomy is vastly different than feline anatomy. Declawing does not involve "ripping the nail off", nor is it comparable to removing a finger at the last knuckle. It is a medically valid surgical procedure, which while highly optional, is no crueler than Spay/Neuter or any other similarly Medically Valid Surgical Procedure.

Declawing causes no more disfigurement than does neutering, conversely, neutering actually has more cosmetic effect than does declawing. In the relaxed state the claws are fully retracted and not normally visible, removing them surgically cannot make them any less visible in such a situation. For the term Disfigurement to be valid, there must be a significant cosmetic change. With declawing, there is no such change.

Spotz

Oh no, not another declaw thread. I will not even speak in this one, I don't want to spark my bobcat moodiness :lol3: :lol3: I will just sit and watch from my den :)

I don't agree that neutering is equal to declawing. Neutering is done to prevent unwanted breeding, and thus is done for the benefit of society as a whole, to prevent us being overrun with cats & dogs etc. Declawing is for the benefit of the household, whether it is to protect your furniture or your health.

Maybe I have been lucky. I have kept many indoor cats, and my house has never been ripped up by any of them. I don't clip claws, or use claw covers, the cats are as nature made them, and my house (although a bit messy - my fault!) looks OK to me.

As an aside, I recently got hold of some very old riding magazines (from the 40s & 50s), English ones. In them there was a debate raging (much like this declawing one) about whether tail docking in horses should be banned. A lot of Brits wanted to keep on docking, people from the US and Canada were saying, don't do it, it's inhumane. It was banned, I'm thankful to say, eventually. And yet, in the US it's legal to declaw!

Sue

And in the scenario you just presented...you made your choice. You choose the furniture. Fine, it is still legal in the US to declaw whenever the owner finds it more convenient.

But it is also the owner's choice NOT to get their cat declawed under any circumstance.
Me personally - I value my pets' lives and quality of life as I view it above the resale value or damage deposit. They are indoor only, and I still won't ever do a declaw again. It doesn't matter whether or not they are indoor or outdoor to ME.


Would you buy a house with thousands of dollars of repairs needed???? No, Not many would. If I am going to invest money in my home I want to ensure the value of that home is going to remain constant. That helps not only the selling value, but margage levels and your alibity to borrow against your home. My kitten is indoors all the time. If he were to suddenly begin to scratch my parents leather couches, do you think he would ever be welcome in my parents home. No. If he wre to suddenly use the walls as a sctaching post I would look into it getting him delcawed. and rather quickly I might add.
FYI Declawing is not the same as tail and ear altering. That is done on pure breed dogs, within the first few weeks of birth. It is also done to maintain a breed standard, have you ever seen a Pug with a long tail?? Go talk to the Kennel Club to try to change it.

Seems rather wacky to me to buy a pet cat then deface it by having the claws ripped out. Cats come with claws if you dont like it simply dont have one. I and many other people in this country have horses, should we have their hooves removed so they cant hurt anyone when they kick?

Seems rather wacky to me to buy a pet cat then deface it by having the claws ripped out. Cats come with claws if you dont like it simply dont have one. I and many other people in this country have horses, should we have their hooves removed so they cant hurt anyone when they kick?

Cat's claws are not ripped out. The are surgically removed.

Would you buy a house with thousands of dollars of repairs needed???? Just how much damage do you think a cat can do with it's claws??? :eek: If it has litterbox issues or spraying issues, I can see thousands with having to replace entire floors, floorboards, walls and real structural elements, but the WORST they will do is rip up some carpet or maybe do some damage to the exterior of a wall. Carpet ain't that expensive, and drywall and spackle are cheap. Cats are not going to actually do structural damage to a building with their claws unless they totally run rampant through the interior structure, and even then the damage would come more from urine and feces than scratching.

Besides that, if there is that much damage, the buyer would generally have the estimated cost of repairs deducted from the asking price or that the seller do the repairs at their cost prior to closing as a contingency of the contract. That's just common practice, at least in my area.

FYI Declawing is not the same as tail and ear altering. That is done on pure breed dogs, within the first few weeks of birth. It is also done to maintain a breed standard, have you ever seen a Pug with a long tail?? Go talk to the Kennel Club to try to change it.


Iam fairly sure that it is now illegal to dock a puppys or dogs tail here in Australia now even pedigree ones. I watched the news the other day and a man had been charged, but I think that he did it him self at home. But I still think that the vets cant do it now either. Any one from Australia no for sure if this is true.

Seems rather wacky to me to buy a pet cat then deface it by having the claws ripped out. Cats come with claws if you dont like it simply dont have one. I and many other people in this country have horses, should we have their hooves removed so they cant hurt anyone when they kick? To follow along with the current theme, we definitely should reconsider our habit of gutting female cats, and just chopping the testicles off of males. We also shouldn't forcibly inject substances into these animals that cause excruciating pain and swelling.

Isn't it just so horrible to watch a helpless horse be subjected to such inhumane acts...I mean...have you ever watched a farrier barbarically pound nail after nail into a horses hoof...the only term that I can think of to compare such brutality with is crucifixion. Driving nail after nail into a living being....how could anyone ever argue that this practice is humane?!??!

:not:

Now honestly...what is the value of such blatant misrepresentations of fact? Declawing cannot be associated with "having the claws ripped out" in anything but a great stretch of imagination, it simply does not happen that way at all. Nor do any of the other things that I satirically addressed above.

Learn the truth; it's really not all that hard to do. Declawing is optional, widely unnecessary, but hardly inhumane or cruel. Declawing is not the horrid procedure that the widespread misinformation makes it out to be. But it's also hardly a procedure that is necessary, as some veterinarians have a tendency to play it off as, or as habit/upbringing have ingrained in many peoples minds.


Spotz

I wouldn't exactly compare declawing to neutering, but I find it a bit ironic the people who say cutting off the first joint of the cats toe is any more human than castrating him. Ask any man what he thinks of this opinion ;)

MANY people have cats neutered for the same reasons they have their cats declawed. It isn't for the possible health benefits. Our little segment of cat society here isn't the "norm" -- MOST people have their cat "fixed" so it doesn't stink up their house and damage their furniture with spraying. If they have multiple cats it may be to prevent breeding, or fighting. For MOST average pet owners, it's a convenience issue just like declawing.

Now I'm not all for declawing. Cosmo recently came into my life with claws and I will not take him to be declawed. However, if I found out any of us was particularly at risk by him having claws (if one of us become immuno-compromised in some way, or if it turned out my kids or husband was allergic to cat-scratches) I might have to consider it. Comere (RB) was declawed when I got him and I'll tell you something, he was one of the most affectionate cats ever, so I doubt declawing had any adverse effect on his personality. He was also an indoor-outdoor cat the second 2/3 of his life (yeah, I know, "gasp") and did quite fine defending himself and protecting himself... in his younger years had no problems catching mice and birds.

It's a choice pet owners will make for a variety of reasons. I'd encourage people to only do it if they feel it's absolutely necessary and to get as much unbiased info as possible (just the facts please)... but I don't agree it should be outlawed.

You cant compare neutering a cat with having claws removed. Neutering is done for humane reasons - ie - too many kittens, not enough kind homes to go round see. I cant get my head around this declawing lark. For my own part, if my cats claw the carpet so what. I've learnt a valuable lesson - I dont have carpet again, I would have varnished floorboards instead, far more trendy. I just find all this whacky and rather suspect as to a person's motives for having any sort of pet at all. Perhaps subconsciously, humans do these sort of 'unusual' things to try and score one up on an animal and try to prove their superiority. Ooops my psychology reading coming out again!!!!! :frusty:

I don't really want to get into this debate tooo much but i'll tell my story

When i was younger my parents bought a kitty for me a my brother. This cat was insane and really grumpy to children. One day he decided to scratch my eyes out and i had to be sent to the hospital. After this incedent the cat was declawed. He actually became a better of a cat afterwards. No problems. When he turned 15 the old grumpyness came back but thats a different story. :paranoid:

Now Sakura is not declawed and she's the sweetest kitty ever. I plan to never declaw her. I have teached all about the great uses of a scratching post. :)

I think there are certain situations that make declawing ok. I dont think it should be banned. It's all up to the owners and how they feel. It's not the choice of society as a whole to decide whats best, its up to the individual owner.

note: the cat did not actually take my eyes out he just had me wear an eye patch for several days. :oneeye:

I don't really want to get into this debate tooo much but i'll tell my story
When i was younger my parents bought a kitty for me a my brother. This cat was insane and really grumpy to children. One day he decided to scratch my eyes out and i had to be sent to the hospital. After this incedent the cat was declawed. He actually became a better of a cat afterwards. No problems. When he turned 15 the old grumpyness came back but thats a different story. :paranoid:
Now Sakura is not declawed and she's the sweetest kitty ever. I plan to never declaw her. I have teached all about the great uses of a scratching post. :) I think there are certain situations that make declawing ok. I dont think it should be banned. It's all up to the owners and how they feel. It's not the choice of society as a whole to decide whats best, its up to the individual owner.note: the cat did not actually take my eyes out he just had me wear an eye patch for several days. :oneeye:


:yeah: Perfect example!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Kitty!!!!

Declawing is done because people somehow get it into their heads that their furniture suffers when it is scratched but their cat won't know the difference if his toes are amputated.

And that pretty much sums it up. It's sacrificing the well-being of a creature who can feel pain for the benefit of an inanimate object.

And no, it's not comparable at all to spay/neuter. Sheter overpopulation is the #1 killer of domestic cats in the US and this is only preventable through s/n. Declawing, in contrast, offers no benefit to the cat and is done merely for the convenience of the humans.

And no, it's not comparable at all to spay/neuter. Sheter overpopulation is the #1 killer of domestic cats in the US and this is only preventable through s/n. Declawing, in contrast, offers no benefit to the cat and is done merely for the convenience of the humans.

This is why I replied the way I did. What you say is true about over-population, and I live in an area where this is particularly bad. But this isn't the reason the average pet owner has their cat "fixed". It's for the same conveniences as declawing (in their eyes)... So their furniture/carpets aren't wrecked or so they have a "friendlier" cat.

Declawing is done because people somehow get it into their heads that their furniture suffers when it is scratched but their cat won't know the difference if his toes are amputated.

What about people who would become very ill if scratched? (Aids and transplants patients, to name a couple.) Wouldn't you rather see a cat get a home even if it means declawing rather then be murdered due to overpopulation?

Would a seriously ill person spend enough time out of hospital to actually be able to look after a cat?

Posted my last note too quickly.
Enough of this declawing debate. Declawing is barbaric and obscene. If people have to have a cat but really need to preserve their precious furniture by getting the poor creature declawed, then forget it, get yerselves a cuddly soft toy cat. Folk who buy pets (whatever animal they are) and then proceed to mutilate it for whatever reason, should not own a pet. I know this might offend but my thought is not for mere mortals, it is for cats (far superior and intelligent then the folk who own them). Folk who are really love animals, put them first and themselves last. If you really want a cat (or any animal) think very carefully. No one needs to own a cat, dog, horse, elephant or whatever. When you have an animal THAT ANIMAL COMES FIRST - YOU SECOND. So if you're so besotted with your precious furniture and want it to remain intact, dont get a cat. Perhaps one day, aliens will land from mars, they may even want a pet human but cant put up with the human having some (as they see it) antisocial trait, so they chop off its left foot. Get my drift. Nothing annoys me more than folk who want animals so bad that by owning them causes them some sort of stress or suffering. My cats are fully armed and used to have a whale of a time clawing the furniture - so - we bought some more that was unattractive to them and stopped stropping their claws on it.

This is why I replied the way I did. What you say is true about over-population, and I live in an area where this is particularly bad. But this isn't the reason the average pet owner has their cat "fixed". It's for the same conveniences as declawing (in their eyes)... So their furniture/carpets aren't wrecked or so they have a "friendlier" cat.

I think you're right about the reasons why many people s/n, but there is still a huge difference between s/n and declawing. It's true that s/n means that the guardian will not have to deal with litters of kittens, smelly tomcat urine, etc, but it's also true that the cat benefits greatly from being s/n, and because the cat is not contributing to cat overpopulation, all of "cat-kind" benefits every time an individual cat is s/n. So while the individual's motive for s/n may be selfish, the act itself is still very good and important for reasons that extend well beyond the person's self-interest.

Given the importance of spay/neuter, I'm glad that s/n animals make better pets. It's hard to reach people who are not educated about animal issues with talk of animal overpopulation and shelter euthanasia, but it's easy to communicate to them that if they s/n, their male cat's urine won't stink anymore and their female cat won't have kittens.

In contrast, declawing is harmful to the cat and does not confer any benefit upon him. The only reason to declaw is human convenience.

I totally agree with you about spaying and neutering. I think this is essential. Spaying and neutering is not mutilation but necessary. :wavey:

What about people who would become very ill if scratched? (Aids and transplants patients, to name a couple.) Wouldn't you rather see a cat get a home even if it means declawing rather then be murdered due to overpopulation?

Given the choice between "declawed or dead", of course I would choose "declawed". I mean, I'd rather have no fingers than be dead. But this argument is used too often as an excuse to continue declawing. Declawed may be better than dead, but alive *and* with toes intact is better than either of them!

For folks with compromised immune systems, first of all I would not recommend having a pet at all if contact with the normal flora carried by all animals (including humans) can be pathogenic for them due to their reduced immune function. If they already have a cat, the biggest thing that must be done is to prevent the possibility of being bitten by the cat. Most cats carry Pasteurella in their mouths and this can cause nasty infections even in people with normal immune systems. For someone without a normal immune system, this would be absolutely devastating. Since declawed cats bite much more often than non-declawed cats, it would be unwise for a person with poor immune function to have their cat declawed since they would actually be increasing their risk of serious infection.

As for scratches, there are plenty of alternatives to declawing. Simple nail trimming is enough to blunt the claws so that they can't pierce the skin. SoftPaws are another option.

It's interesting to note that cats are always declawed in front and only very rarely in the back. I've been clawed many times and while front claws tend to make superficial scratches, back claws pretty much shred the skin because the claws are less sharp (therefore creating a wider and more jagged cut) and the muscles in the cat's back legs are much stronger. I'd much rather be scratched by a front claw than a back claw, both from the pain and cosmetic disfigurement caused by each type. It seems logical, then, that if scratches were the real concern, cats would be declawed in back and left alone in front.

:woo:another declaw thread! :rolleyes:
every single time someone starts a thread about declawing, everyone on here gets mad standing up for what they think is right... is anyone else getting sick of all the arguing(about everything) no? well i guess i've got something to say then too...

half(including myself) is thinking 'what is the big deal?', the other half the people say 'declawing is wrong, the owners are cruel, they dont care about their cats, their selfish' :rolleyes: give me a freaking break... since my wee-little days my family has owned only declawed cats... and now i have a cat of my own and she is declawed... and guess what, she is treated better and cared for and loved :heart3: more than anyone could ever even imagine... i dont consider what we did cruel... yea, i declawed her(front only of course) and i did feel bad at first because for a few days she acted like it hurt and i did it because of our furniture, call me selfish, whatever, i dont have $3000 growing out of my a$$ to replace my furniture every couple years after it has been shredded to miniscule(sp?) fibers... forgive me

now dont post a whole bunch of articles for me to read about declawing... i have read the thousand other declaw threads on here and read the websites about declawing and next time i get a cat, i will probably have it declawed... and i know about the alternatives and i know about scratching posts.. blah blah, read it all before

by the way, whose cat told them that declawing hurts their paws forever afterwards.... maybe for a couple of weeks, a month afterwards.... have you ever had surgery, yea, it hurts, till it heals.... then i think they really dont care... i have never seen a cat who acted like they were in any form of pain from declawing(after the given healing time)... if you have.. tell me i am wrong...
okay
now, for all the people who declaw, i think only a small amount will ever 'swtich over' and become anti-declaw.... so what is the point in allllllwwwaaaayyyys talking about it... there is always going to be someone against it and always someone for it....

and i breifly read something about banning delcawing in the u.s. i dont see that happening(although anything is possible), out of the thousands of cat owners that i have met, i have met two families(my husbands and a girlfriends from high school) who didnt declaw their cats

and i dont think we should worry about banning declawing in any country right now, we should worry about banning talking about it on TCS... because everytime, it turns into a big, international argument!

adeus! :wavey:

Just another friendly reminder to keep this thread flame free. It's been....well, it hasn't totally crossed the line yet. ;) Please refrain from any personal insults, from calling people cruel, etc. Besides not being allowed on this site, calling someone names will not do anything to change their minds. :)

now, for all the people who declaw, i think only a small amount will ever 'swtich over' and become anti-declaw.... so what is the point in allllllwwwaaaayyyys talking about it... there is always going to be someone against it and always someone for it....

and i breifly read something about banning delcawing in the u.s. i dont see that happening(although anything is possible), out of the thousands of cat owners that i have met, i have met two families(my husbands and a girlfriends from high school) who didnt declaw their cats

Meagan, I both agree and disagree with you on this. For the people who do know what declawing involves, you're right...they probably won't change their minds. But for the people who don't really know what the procedure is and get it done either "because we've always had declawed cats" or because the vet encourages it, I think education will dissuade quite a few of them.

It's interesting that you said that about all of the cat owners you've met having their cats declawed. Obviously, that's a minority figure here at TCS. ;) But I've actually had the opposite experience. I only know of one, maybe two households that do have their cats declawed. Maybe it's a regional thing?

It's interesting that you said that about all of the cat owners you've met having their cats declawed. Obviously, that's a minority figure here at TCS. ;) But I've actually had the opposite experience. I only know of one, maybe two households that do have their cats declawed. Maybe it's a regional thing?

i actually meant to include that.... i really had no idea that there was ANYone against declawing until i started poking around on this site and then that is when i read all those articles and stuff and i realized people felt so strongly about it... it kinda surprised me cuz like i said, only two people i knew had cats with front claws

i suppose that is my own niaveness(sp? if that is even a word :blush: ) but i only knew what i was exposed to... i had never heard anyone express disbelief in declawing... so it is good for people to know EVERYthing about it before they do it...

and i agree with you, putting people down about their way of thinking and telling them that they are cruel and whatnot is not going to make them change their mind and think 'your' way, but it is going to make them mad and then eventually we have the gi-normous argument and we have gotten no where...

when you make people mad, there are less likely to listen to what you have to say... and you could have info that they dont know that would change their mind about declawing... and as soon as you say 'you are selfish and cruel and you only care about your furniture' and then you try to tell them what you know... not gunna work.... they quit listening at 'you are'

I do agree that the biggest problem is with vets who treat declawing as a routine procedure comparable to spay/neuter. Quite simply, it's neither.

But what I do wonder is what people who declaw "to protect the furniture" do when their cat vomits on the furniture, or if he pees on it, or if he knocks an heirloom knick-knack off the shelf and breaks it. Cats are living creatures and they can be destructive. It concerns me because if someone is willing to have his cat's toes amputated rather than train him to use a scratching post instead of the sofa, why would I have any reason to believe they will use humane behavior modification to cope with any other problems that might develop? I simply would have a very difficult time trusting that the person won't lock the cat in a closet or dump him at the shelter if he ever peed on the sofa.

peeing or vomiting would be the same as if a child wet their bed or didnt make it to the bathroom in time, an accident... things break, so what, i have broken more of my own knick-knacks than my cat has... who cares, if it something really special or pricelss, it is put up somwhere (in a cat-free zone or somewhere they(and my clumsy self) cant get to it-like in a curio)

pee and vomit come out of a couch a lot easier than tears and scratches do

and i dont understand why people who are anti-declaw use phrases like 'amputate the cats toes' or 'cutting off their finger'... :confused: my cat still has fingers and toes... she just doesnt have nails

and as far as training them to use a scratching post.... sara (although without her "fingers") uses the two scratching post on her tree, as well as the rugs, or suitcases, or furniture, whatever is convenient at the time

I simply would have a very difficult time trusting that the person won't lock the cat in a closet or dump him at the shelter if he ever peed on the sofa.

They do dump them off at shelters. I can't tell you how many declaws (2 and 4 paw, by the way) are dumped at my shelter before they are a year old. What I want to know is who has the 600 extra dollars to throw away a spayed female? (And if I mentioned this before in this thread, sorry.)

As one of the ladies who have been there for years puts it, "If they can't stand the cat, then they can't stand it, claws or no claws."

The upside is that the declawed cats get adopted really fast.

I grew up and live in an area where the mentality is to declaw a cat. When I made an appointment to have my kitten, Izzie, spayed, the vet asked if I will be having her declawed as well. It's almost like "Do you want fries with that?" kind of mentality. When I told my boyfriend I was getting a kitten, he gave me a bag of Yesterday's News to use when she'd be declawed. I told him I had no intentions of getting her declawed and he told me I was nuts and that my doors, furniture, etc. would be torn to shreds.

I found alternatives to declawing. I trim Izzie's claws and have trained her to use the scratching post. I've also tried Soft Claws. She was born with claws and I see no reason to have them removed. She hasn't caused any damage with her claws in the 5 months I've had her. I chose to have a cat so I feel I need to adapt to living with one. If that means providing a scratching post or owning furniture that is more rip proof, then that is what I need to do.

At last, a REAL cat lover.

At last, a REAL cat lover.

i am sorry, but you are wrong... who gave you the credentials to judge what a REAL cat lover is... what because they agree with your point of view... that makes you ignorant... you have no idea how people other than yourself feel about their cats, and you are in no position to judge

and on top of all that, that offends me, i love my cat more than anyone or anything else in this world... my husband actually thinks that kind of sad... he can kiss my a$$ and as far as i am concerned...

how would you like it if you posted your opinion on something and someone came on and posted...

"at last, another ignorant human"

judging you because of your inability to comprehend and understand both sides of an arugument

you dont have to agree, but by god, be a grown up and show some respect for other people and their opinions and try not to judge, it isnt very becoming ;)

They do dump them off at shelters. I can't tell you how many declaws (2 and 4 paw, by the way) are dumped at my shelter before they are a year old. What I want to know is who has the 600 extra dollars to throw away a spayed female? (And if I mentioned this before in this thread, sorry.)

As one of the ladies who have been there for years puts it, "If they can't stand the cat, then they can't stand it, claws or no claws."

The upside is that the declawed cats get adopted really fast.

...and probably dumped back at the shelter just as fast.

I agree completely with you. I think that a desire to declaw is symptomatic of a lack of tolerance for normal cat behavior and all the things that can come with it. Sure, the cat can't shred the furniture anymore, but he can still do a lot of other damage to your belongings. So in the end, if the belongings won once, they'll probably win again - and the cat gets screwed first by having his toes cut off, and then again when he is abandoned (and possibly killed).

pee and vomit come out of a couch a lot easier than tears and scratches do

and i dont understand why people who are anti-declaw use phrases like 'amputate the cats toes' or 'cutting off their finger'... :confused: my cat still has fingers and toes... she just doesnt have nails



I still haven't found a way to get pee entirely out of a sofa - if you have figured out how to do it, please let me know and I will be eternally grateful!

The declaw procedure (the medical term is onychectomy) is the amputation of the cat's toes at the first knuckle. Essentially, the toe is comprised of three separate bones and the first of these is amputated completely. Muscles and tendons are also severed in the process. It is absolutely, by definition, the amputation of part of each toe. It is not in any manner or form comparable to trimming claws. Here is more detailed information written by a vet:

"The goal of this surgery is the removal of the distal phalanx (last knuckle), along with the accompanying claw. The newest (though not as widespread) method of accomplishing this task is by the use of a carbon dioxide laser. This type of onychectomy can further minimize post-operative pain, and complications in any age animal from a strictly cranio-dorsal approach. The redundant epidermal tissue will now cover the majority of the onychectomy site. No sutures or tissue adhesive are advised.

To perform this surgery (in the routine, non-laser manner) first, the cat is given a general anesthetic, and the fur surrounding the cat's paws is shaved off. A tourniquet is placed around the leg, and the nail area is rinsed with surgical scrub. Amputation of each toe is accomplished by making a cut across the first joint (possible involving the foot pad) using a guillotine type nail cutter, or a surgical blade. The area is then tightly bandaged to prevent excessive hemorrhaging. The bandaging can be removed two to three days after the surgery. The wounds are closed with either sutures or adhesives, or left open. Shredded paper or newspaper pellet litter should be used in the litter box instead of kitty litter for a week following the surgery. The foot must be kept clean and dry to minimize infection."

The full text can be found here: http://www.askvetadvice.com/newsletter_archive06162003.shtml

Here's an even more detailed site with pictures that demonstrate the procedure step by step: http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/sxclub/Onychectomy%20in%20the%20feline%20patient.pdf

If you don't believe this, talk to the vet who did your cat's procedure and ask him to explain exactly what it entails.

What about the problems a cat could have in the years to come after the declaw surgery? If this was covered already sorry, I didn't read every last post on this thread.

These are the things I have heard:
-lack of claws can throw off the cats balance
-it can lead to biting more frequently because the cat has no other way to defend itself
-you can also NEVER let your cat go outdoors unsupervised (I would hope this is just common sense) because it cannot defend or protect itself
-if a young kitten is declawed, it cannot properly develop the muscles in its legs because it cannot stretch very well with no way of gripping onto anything
-an adult cat can develop arthritis because it can no longer exercise those leg muscles properly
-a cat can have litter problems because its feet are now sensitive, kind of like a person walking barefoot on gravel. (I know a cat doesn't walk on its claws but I would think that whole area would be a little more sensitive)
-I also heard that during the normal declawing (not laser) that a cat will sometimes mutter a little growl of pain despite being put out for the procedure
-What if you don't choose a great vet and the surgery goes horribly wrong?
-While in recovery with the little bandages on, a cat could pull them off because obviously a cat wouldn't want something like that on their feet if they can help it. So now you have the risk of the cat bleeding to death.
There is also now blood all over the cage it is recovering in because the vet isn't going to sit there next to the cage overnite and supervise the cat. The cat is traumatized by the pain and the blood and has no idea where it woke up to or who is around or whats going on. The holes where the claws used to be, where after the cat successfully removed the bandage and chewed at the glue that was holding it together, now have to be refilled with glue and pressed together, while the cat is AWAKE.

These things are just what COULD happen, certainly they aren't going to happen to every declawed cat. Some are also EXTREME situations. But why take the chances? I just don't understand it at all. I wish this would become illegal in the USA.

I certainly wouldn't even THINK of declawing my cats and if I lived in an apartment that required it, I would move or something. But since it is still legal in the USA, I must say I would certainly rather a cat find a new forever home who cares about it and takes it to the vet regularly and the cat is declawed, then to turn down an otherwise good home just because of that fact. On that note, I did just turn down a little older couple who were interested in my little kitty because the first word out of the lady's mouth was "we gotta go straight to the vet and declaw him" and I was like wait a minute, I have trained him not to scratch on anything but his post and he does not at all. I really don't want him to go to someone who won't even consider keeping him clawed. All she said was "cats have to be declawed they just tear up everything if they aren't" RRGGG, well I didn't want to get into WW3 so I just calmly explained it to her and said sorry and left.

Sorry this is so long and if any of the things I said are completely wrong, like I said I don't know a lot about declawing because I would never put a poor cat through that kind of trauma.

...and probably dumped back at the shelter just as fast.

I do hope you weren't trying to put words in my mouth.


Actually, the declawed cats stay in homes, rather than clawed cats. Clawed cats are returned frequently because they've clawed kids or owners. We've never had a clawed cat returned for "ruining the furniture". We are an anti-delcaw shelter. 90% of the cats we adopt out are too old to have the procedure done, so it's not like the new owners are doing it behind our backs.

I personally do not delcaw. I fought my mother tooth and nail against declawing the three I have now and I won. My fourth cat is a 14 year old delcaw I took home from the shelter. He wasn't dumped due to any delcawing issue, he was dumped because his owners were moving and didn't want cat hair or a litterbox in their new home. I've seen what happens to a delcawed cat. I don't like the thought of it.

But I've also been up to my shoulders in dead cats in the shelter's freezer. How many of those cats were dumped due to scratching issues??? Like I've said before, I'd rather see a cat declawed (and there are good vets who do it right, and send home pain meds) than be killed in a shelter. I think that at this point in the overpopulation crisis that people shouldn't be so concerned about the issue of declawing. The point is to stop the litters from being born, and to get the cats that are here into good homes, no matter what the cost.

This thread is now closed. There is absolutely NO need for name calling and questioning of whether anyone here is a real cat lover. I realize that passions run strong and deep on this topic, but personal insults, whether stated or implied, are not acceptable in this community.

As much as I am opposed to declawing, I have also done enough research on what the surgery entails, and complication rates to know that the vast majority of cats are not physically or emotionally destroyed by this procedure. There is a lot of propoganda on this issue from both sides. And there is a lot of misinformation as well as actual statistics. Thanks to the internet, it seems the misinformation gets passed around more than the scientific research.

And once again I will state that the way to change someone's mind on an issue never includes insults. Education, presentation of the facts will always go farther than questioning someone's intelligence or morals - on this or any other issue.